When Unplanned Becomes Purpose – Interview with Roland Warren

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What does it mean to move from “pro-life” to “pro-abundant life”?

Roland Warren, CEO of Care Net, shared his journey from facing an unplanned pregnancy as a Princeton student, to leading one of the nation’s largest pregnancy care networks. In this episode, Roland challenges us to think beyond pro-life and embrace what he calls being “pro-abundant life.”

What Does “Pro-Abundant Life” Mean?​

In John 10:10, Jesus declares, “I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.” This verse reminds us that God’s vision for life isn’t merely about physical existence (bios); it’s about spiritual fullness (zóé). Pro-abundant life means not just saving lives, but nurturing families and creating disciples for Christ.

Roland beautifully connects the birth of Christ to the challenges of unplanned pregnancies today. Mary’s pregnancy was, from a human perspective, unplanned. Yet, she chose life, focusing not on uncertainty but on God’s promise (Luke 1:38).

Joseph’s role was equally vital. When tempted to “put her away quietly” (Matthew 1:19), God intervened, calling him to be a husband to Mary and a father to Jesus. This story highlights the importance of fathers stepping up, and the church supporting vulnerable families.

Why “Pro-Life” Isn’t Enough​

Roland emphasized that the traditional pro-life framework often overlooks critical aspects:

• Support for Families: Women in crisis pregnancies often lack emotional, spiritual, and financial support.
• Engaged Fathers: Statistics show that a father’s involvement significantly impacts a woman’s decision to carry her pregnancy to term.
• The Church’s Role: As James 1:27 reminds us, believers are called to care for orphans and widows. This means supporting single mothers and their children.

Being “pro-abundant life” means mobilizing the church to act. Through Care Net’s Making Life Disciples program, small groups can walk alongside women and men facing unplanned pregnancies, offering not just material support, but spiritual mentorship.This approach mirrors Matthew 22:37–39 and Matthew 28:19. By loving God, and our neighbors, we create a foundation for discipleship.

As believers, we are to recognize every child as an image-bearer of God (Genesis 1:27). Whether conceived in planned or unplanned circumstances, each life has intrinsic value and purpose. We can lean into Christ’s call for abundant life by partnering with organizations like Care Net, supporting local pregnancy resource centers, or even by starting a small group ministry in your own church. Together, we can be the hands and feet of Christ for those who need it most.

For more resources and to join the pro-abundant life movement, visit Care Net.

READ TRANSCRIPT​

Aaron Smith (00:01):


Hey, Marriage After God family. I wanted to take a quick moment to tell you about Samaritan Ministries Biblical Healthcare that puts your family first. See, we’re so excited about this because my family and I, we’ve been using Samaritan Ministries for years for our family healthcare, and we truly love it. If you’ve never heard of them, Samaritan Ministries is a biblical solution to healthcare. It’s a community of believers who share each other’s medical needs through prayer, encouragement, and direct financial support. You’ll actually get money directly from another believer to help pay for your bills. And every month you’ll pay directly to another believer to help pay their bills. And not only do you get to send this directly to them, but you also get to pray for them and send them a message of encouragement. We love it and you’ll love it. We get to have the freedom to choose our own doctors while participating in a ministry that prioritizes Christian values.

(00:46)
Plus, it could be more affordable than what you’re currently paying right now. So if you’re interested in finding out more about Samaritan Ministries and what they could do for your family and your medical needs, please go to marriage after god.com/sm. That’s the letters s marriage god.com/sm and find out more about Samaritan Ministries and see if it’s got a good fit for your family. Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. In this episode, I get the pleasure of interviewing Roland Warren, the CEO of carenet.org. This is an organization that my family and I have been supporting for years now, even when you buy a book from our store, a portion of the proceeds go to carenet.org. They have over 1200 I believe, pregnancy resource centers around the country. They don’t just promote pro-life. They’re pro abundant life. And that’s what this conversation is about today, is about Warren and his life, how he became the CEO of carenet.org, and also what Care Net’s about. And we just got into a really great discussion about Mary and Jesus and unplanned pregnancies and the power that the church has and the mandate that the church has in supporting pro abundant life. Not just desiring to see babies be born, but also seeing mothers and fathers and families being made whole again. So enjoy my conversation with Roland Warren.


Jennifer Smith (02:12):


Hey,


Aaron Smith (02:12):


I’m Aaron.


Jennifer Smith (02:13):


And I’m Jennifer.


Aaron Smith (02:14):


And we’re the host of the Marriage After God Podcast. Our desire is to help you cultivate a marriage that chases boldly after God’s will for your life together.


Jennifer Smith (02:20):


We want to invite you to subscribe to our show wherever you watch or listen.


Aaron Smith (02:23):


We are so glad you’re here, and we pray that our discussion truly blesses you and your marriage.


Jennifer Smith (02:28):


Welcome to the Marriage After God podcast.


Aaron Smith (02:36):


Hey everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. I’m here with Roland Warren, the CEO of carenet.org. Welcome to the show, Roland.


Roland Warren (02:46):


Good to be with you. Thanks a lot, Aaron, for having me on. I appreciate it.


Aaron Smith (02:50):


I’m super honored. I’m super excited to chat with you. carenet.org has been an organization that my wife and I have been supporting for many years now. We love it. We love the Pregnancy Resource Centers. We’ll talk more about what you guys do, but I was excited to get you on the show to talk to you and to hear your heart for Abundant Life. But why don’t we start with so my audience can get to know who you are, your history, your story, how long you’ve been married, kids now, your career that you have@carenet.org, and we’ll let them all know who you are.


Roland Warren (03:24):


Yeah, no, actually, and just to correct me just for a second.org, just so folks, if they look it up, they’ll get it carenet.org. But yeah, Aaron, I’ve been with CareNet for a little over 12 years and I started in the business world and worked for IBM, Goldman Sachs, Pepsi, and then spent about 12 years with an organization called National Fatherhood Initiative and working on helping them be better dads. But a lot of what God called me to, it really does start with how I sort of got connected to the life issue and the fatherhood issue. Before that, I was a 20-year-old college student at Princeton and I got my girlfriend pregnant, and she’s not my wife of 42 years for the punchline there, but she was a sophomore. I was a junior. We got pregnant and we were faced with an unplanned pregnancy, and I also had grown up without my father.

(04:22)
So the fatherhood issue was another thing that was kind of underneath, if you will, kind of a lot of things that were going on in my life. And so here I was about to become a father at 20, haven’t grown up without a dad, and then facing an unplanned pregnancy as well. And so that really is, if I think about the work that I’m doing now, when it started, and how God used that journey to connecting me to the issue and to give me that framework about how we should think about the life issue really goes all the way back to there. What happened during that situation? We ended up in a situation where she went to the student health services and got the pregnancy test. The nurse said, look, you’re pregnant now, of course you’re going to have an abortion without kind of taking extra there.

(05:10)
It all assumed. Just assumed she was going to have an abortion. And my wife Yvette says, no, I want to have my baby. I want to get married. And the nurse is like, well, how are you going to have a baby and graduate from Princeton? I mean, and what do you want to do when you graduate? And Y vet says, well, I want to become a doctor. She’s like, my gosh, how are you going to become a doctor and have a baby at Princeton? I mean, it just didn’t seem like it made a lot of sense. And so she comes back to the dorm room and I always tell the story that I imagine we were sitting on the edge of the bed, which is where we should have spent all of our time. And there we were facing this unplanned pregnancy. And in that moment I just kind of lean into, Hey, we’re going to move forward with a plan.

(05:50)
We’re going to get married. I’m going to be a husband to you and a father to our child growing inside of you. And that’s what we did. So we got married, she took a year off, I graduated. So the next year she took a year off and had our baby and then went back to school and finished actually two years later with two babies, not one. So I was tease as Ivy League, you got to overachieve, so can’t graduate with one league, you got to do two, maybe Harvard’s one, but at Princeton it’s two if you kind of do that. But anyway, so she did, carried our youngest son Justin in her graduation and really just kind showed how God steps into situations when you follow his plan and he makes these things happen. And then she went on to medical school, became chief resident of her program, believe it or not. She’s been practicing medicine almost 30 years now. So has she ever gone,


Aaron Smith (06:52):


Has she ever gone back to that nurse that was like, how are you going to graduate and how are you going to become a doctor with a baby?


Roland Warren (06:57):


I know know, it’s one of these, I wish we could find her because this is a story that people don’t really want to tell as much as they should because this is the other side of that. And it’s a little bit of a side because we just went through a presidential election and the abortion issue was a key issue. And one of the things that I sort of found kind of serendipitously when I was looking back at Kamala Harris’s background and her scenario, I mean her life story with connection to her family. And it turns out that her sister ended up getting pregnant in high school. I dunno if you know that or not. She didn’t know that. No, she was 17, yes, got pregnant when she was 17. She had the baby, went to Berkeley,

(07:43)
Graduated from Berkeley, went to Stanford, Stanford Law School, graduated from Stanford Law School as a single mother with a baby. She has exactly in a lot of ways the same kind of story that my wife Yvette has. But somehow that story was never told, no, of course not. That messes up. Why wouldn’t you tell that story? Why wouldn’t you tell that story? And so from my standpoint, that’s really what we’re about. Women can do this. And frankly in that case, from what I read anyway, that the father was not even involved, but I imagine her mother, and frankly even they all came around her and provided her the support so that she could meet her hopes in her dreams rather than taking the life of the child, growing inside of her. And that’s essentially what we’re saying. So we’re just asking folks, let’s be honest about what can happen here and what’s possible here. We don’t need to have abortion so that women like my wife and camel’s sister can meet their dreams. That can happen without us sacrificing our children. So it’s very interesting to me. Anyway, so that’s the story, kind of what happened. And as you can see, in terms of what I’m doing now, it’s very much connected to that.


Aaron Smith (08:55):


So you got pregnant, you got married, finished school. She finished school. Multiple children. How many kids do you have now? Total?


Roland Warren (09:04):


I have two. Have two boys. Yeah,


Aaron Smith (09:06):


Four


Roland Warren (09:07):


Grandkids, four grandkids double up there.


Aaron Smith (09:09):


That’s amazing. So blessed. And you said you were working in the corporate world. How did you transition from all of the corporate lifestyle, the corporate world, to all of a sudden now you’re working for this organization?


Roland Warren (09:28):


I would say at some level will begrudgingly, that happens.

(09:38)
Yeah, it’s interesting because I went on and got an MBA as well. So I went to Warden and got an MBA, and my dream was to be a business person. So I worked for IBM and I worked for Pepsi and then did a stint of development work at Princeton while I was getting my MBA and then went to work for Goldman Sachs. And that’s really where I was. And I gotten involved with this organization that was just starting called National Fatherhood Initiative. And I met the guy who was a founder, and we just got connected right away because the issue of fatherhood and father absence, having been a kid who grew up without his dad, that really resonated with me. But I always thought it more from a personal perspective, the impact it had on me. I didn’t realize that it was this huge societal issue that at the time was facing.

(10:30)
I think it was two out of four kids I think at that point were growing up in homes absent their father, something like that. But anyway, that was a huge societal issue. I hadn’t really done that. So I got involved there and I started really leaning into that. And at one point, the guy was a founder, said, Hey, would you be interested in leaving Goldman Sachs and coming to work for National Fatherhood Initiative? And I said, oh, so the lucrative, lucrative world of nonprofit management. And I’m thinking, I’m at Goldman Sachs. This is a Jewish firm. It started by Jews. Jesus was a Jew and they had gold and carried it in sack. And I’m like, this clearly has to be God’s plan for my life. But God made it very clear that this is what he wanted me to do. And so I left to quit my job in nine days and became president of National Fatherhood Initiative and frankly, never looked back.

(11:18)
And it really, it’s kind of an interesting thing, how God kind of orders our path. And he really had me on a couch for about 12 years. There were so many things that were connected to dealing with the absence of my father and how it impacted me as a man, as a husband, as a father. And he really just worked on that during that period of time and gave me a voice for that. And I got blessed with the burden of really trying to help men become the best dads that they can be. While I was there, one of the areas that I started to focus on was how can we build relationships with other organizations that are at the nexus of children and family that should see the fatherhood issue as a solution to the dilemma that they face around their issue?

(12:03)
Because so many of the most intractable social ills are connected to the presence or absence of involved, responsible, committed fathers, low academic performance, teen pregnancy, crime, poverty, all of those things intersect with the fatherhood issue. And so I started just looking for entities that were working on those things connected to child wellbeing, and one of them was the pregnancies center world. And so I got connected to the guy who was the president of Karen at that time and went to him and said, Hey, what are you guys doing to reach fathers? And he’s like, nothing. I was really nothing. He said, Nope, not doing anything. And I thought, well, that seems odd. I remembered my story that although it was my wife’s body and her choice legally, practically, I had a role in that. I had a role in that. And as I learned more and more, the guy has a significant role on the decision of a woman to have an abortion, especially if she doesn’t have other support. So I realized that that was something that needed to happen, that in the pregnancy center world and in the pro-life world in general, that we had created a construct that does not include the father of the baby and the solution,

(13:15)
Even though he’s very much there in terms of the problem from an unplanned pregnancy, I always tell people, every kid has enough involved father at conception. That’s true. They’re very involved, but will he have one at graduation? So linking that conception to graduation was an issue that was very important to me. So anyway, we started working with Pregnancy Center World, the pregnancy center community, and started trying to put fatherhood programs into pregnancy centers and really build this ethos around the involvement of fathers and men in this whole issue. And we’ve built on that since I’ve been with Karen over the last 12 years.


Aaron Smith (13:55):


You’re speaking about the absence of fathers and the male role models and the homes and how the lack of or the presence of makes such a huge difference just statistically and just in reality of a father being present. And I would imagine it’s probably not even perfect. Fathers like good fathers, just the fact that that’s the father that’s remaining now there’s very different degrees of the kind of father that’s there, but a present father, like you said, that is helping something that’s been sad to me to realize over the years as I’ve become a father, have grown up looking at politics more looking at the way that the United States has functioned and even much of the world. I mean, we know we have an enemy that hates family. We have an enemy that hates the image of God hates his order to things. And have you worked with, I know this is kind of off topic, but I care so much about this idea of fathers being in the home, but it feels like very systemic in our politics, that it incentivizes homes to not have a father that there was a movie I watched a long time ago that took place in the Great Depression about, it was called Cinderella Man, about a boxer.

(15:15)
And essentially it was this struggle that if the husband stayed in the home, then they got no support from the government. And so if the husband was gone, the wife and the children would be supported when there was no money, no jobs, no nothing. And it’s like how do you make a decision to do that? And I feel like we’ve just continued on in various ways of that same mentality politically on how we support people with welfare programs. And I feel like it’s very anti father. Would you say that is true? Do you see that as that stuff that you deal with when you were at the Fatherhood Initiative and now at Carnet?


Roland Warren (15:55):


Yeah, I mean, I think that there’s sort of this kind of pernicious perspective that the fathers might be nice to have around, but they’re not essential to the wellbeing of children. Not necessarily, yeah. You know what I mean? So they’re kind of superfluous in that context. And so that has been, I think that’s sort of built into much of the social services model that you see. And it got played out obviously during the whole welfare perspective and most prominently in the African-American community where you started to see this disconnection between fatherhood and motherhood, sex and marriage. And God’s designed for those things. And we’ve sort of seen the results of that. I mean the poorest community in regardless of race, any of those things. When you look at the poorest communities, they’re always the single parent communities and most single parents are mothers. So it definitely has an enormous impact. And I think the other thing too is that it sort of defines fatherhood down around providing economically.

(17:03)
But if you look at any framework of good fathering, it means that you provide, you nurture and you guide, provide nurture and guide. And part of providing is financial, but part of providing as you is presence, your presence, that your presence there is a part of provision that you are present, if you will. And that is part of that provision. Because if you’re not present, then you can’t nurture and you can’t guide. So much of the response to the absence of fathers has been financial. So we have a robust child support system that we want to connect the wallets to kids, but we’re not necessarily connected to father’s heart to the kid. And candidly, when you get a heart, you get the wallet, but sometimes when you chase the wallet, you don’t get either. That’s so true. That’s the way it works. My wife got my heart, she got my wallet and vice versa, that kind of a thing. But if she was just trying to chase my wallet, she might get neither. So I think it’s the simplistic way, and frankly it’s not consistent with God’s design. One of the stories that really animated me when I started thinking about the life issue led me to the framework that I have in terms of being abundant life as opposed to being pro-life

(18:14)
Was really the birth of Christ. So you have Mary having an unplanned pregnancy from a human perspective. She wasn’t ready for it. She wasn’t ready for it, frankly, like Kamala’s sister not ready for it has hopes and dreams and aspirations for her life that did not include a child at this time and in this way. And what does she do? Well, she says she chooses life. She doesn’t focus on the uncertainty of what she doesn’t know. She focuses on the certainty of what she does. There’s a life growing inside of her and it’s not a life worth sacrificing, but a life worth sacrificing for. And she says, let it beyond to me, as you have said, right? She


Aaron Smith (18:51):


Trusts the word of the Lord. Yeah,


Roland Warren (18:54):


Exactly. And she does that and essentially the work that pregnancy centers do, and anyone who’s stepping into this life issue, essentially what you’re trying to encourage a woman to do is to tap into her inner Mary, to encourage her, to ascribe to herself the virtue and the character of Mary, despite all the uncertainty of what you don’t know, focus on the certainty of what you do. There’s a life and it’s a life, not a life worth sacrificing. Now, for a lot of folks, they say, got it, okay, we got, it’s supposed to be helping the proverbial Mary’s and saving the proverbial of Jesuses, which is kind of the single mother and their kids dynamic. But what did God do to make sure that Mary’s unplanned pregnancy wasn’t a crisis pregnancy, sent an angel to Joseph.


Aaron Smith (19:34):


He encouraged the husband. Yeah.


Roland Warren (19:36):


And Joseph had a plan. He was going to put her away quietly, divorce her quietly, basically, since you couldn’t put the baby away back then, you put the baby and the woman away. It was basically a cultural version of an abortion. If you’ll, and the angel comes to him and gives him a very specific bandaid, says, listen, I know you got a plan, but I got a new plan. Here’s my plan. I want you to be a husband to her and a father to the child growing inside of her. So he affirms the sanctity of marriage and family and fatherhood in that context, which is God’s design for marriage and family has fathers being husbands. And so he does that even before he tells him who Jesus is. In other words, the sanctity of marriage and family is there before he even tells him who Jesus is, which is the sanctity of life.

(20:20)
And so in a lot of ways, we sort of follow the culture’s model as opposed to following this biblical model, which is in the first chapter, the first book of the New Testament, God, the sanctity of life issue is connected to the sanctity of marriage and family issue. And if you look at the data, and even at my own life experience, the reason why my wife was less likely to have an abortion was because she had a guy who said, I’ll be a husband to you and a father to the child growing inside of you, which feels that missing support that drives so many of the abortion decisions. And God did that with Jesus, even though you think Jesus couldn’t have survived without Joseph. I mean, come on, we’re talking about the Son of God. You know what I mean? You think Mary couldn’t have survived. God said, look, I can do a Mac of conception, but these guys with stones, that’s beyond my power. Of course not. He had a design for family, and Jesus came into the world consistent with that design, accomplishing his purpose to bring the Savior into the world without violating a principle, God’s design for family.


Aaron Smith (21:23):


I love that you pointed out that order, that God encouraged Joseph to take her as his wife, to not be afraid and to marry her, and that this was his plan and that it was okay, and then said who the baby was. Because currently the reason we have the nurse that talked to your wife, however misinformed she was, I’m sure she didn’t have a malicious intent in mind, but she’s going with the thing that she’s been taught is you don’t know the value of this baby. You don’t know that all this is going to do is going to take value from you, but if it can be proved that that baby will bring you value and then keep it, it’s like God didn’t come saying, here’s the value of the baby in your womb. No, take her as your wife. Don’t be afraid. And so it didn’t matter about the value of the baby, in essence of what you were talking about, is that the order of what God intended was that Mary and Joseph would be the mother and father of the Messiah, that they would raise him, that there would be a family unit, that the order that he created would be continued and portrayed in them.

(22:36)
I think that’s awesome.


Roland Warren (22:36):


Yeah. And frankly, it speaks to the intrinsic value of humans,


Aaron Smith (22:41):


Regardless


Roland Warren (22:42):


Of how they’re conceived. The circumstances of one’s conception in birth do not determine their value and worth. Amen. One of the thought experience I do with people sometimes is I say, look at my wife’s situation. So what you’re supposed to believe and what you do believe when you make the abortion decision is that nothing good will come from this child. This child is a net negative for you, for your family, for your future, for society. Nothing good will come from this child. It’s not even 50 50. This is like absolutely a net negative.

(23:17)
And so when you have an abortion, you’re actually walking in that certainty. And I always do this thought experiment with people. I say, imagine a woman was at a abortion clinic, whatever. She’s about ready to have the abortion. They’re about ready to do the deal. And the doctor says, we got this news, this child that’s growing inside of you, it’s going to be the next insert. Whatever the woman would think would be important for her, the next Bill Gates, the next Barack Obama, the next whatever, whatever’s going to cure cancer, whatever. We’re certain that’s what this child is going to do. Anyway, let me just move forward and start the abortion. You be like, whoa, wait. Whoa, wait a minute. Wait, this is going to be the next Jeff Beals. Yeah. Yeah. But that means I’m, well, wait a minute.


Aaron Smith (24:00):


Yeah, change the perceived value of that child’s life.


Roland Warren (24:03):


Why? Because it changed the perceived value. But with the story of Maryanne Joseph, it’s actually affirming what you said, which is an amazing insight, which is that no, no, him stepping into that role was because brother, it was the son of God or the son of Bill. Don’t matter because that child has a intrinsic value and worth the


Aaron Smith (24:28):


Image of


Roland Warren (24:29):


God regardless. Regardless of that situation. And here’s the thing, we’re treating every child who gets aborted like they’re going to be Hitler, you don’t even know. You take the same zero. People say, wow, what if it was a Hitler? Well, okay, I get your perspective and you’re thinking I’m doing, but you don’t know it’s going to be Hitler, but you’re treating it like it’s going to be Hitler. And frankly, Hitler got created by a dynamic in a family structure that kind of made him Hitler in a lot of ways when you look at his story. So basically it’s rejecting this. Nothing good can come from this, only God knows that. And you just step into the role that God’s called you. When you conceive, you conceive, then you bear the child, and God will do what he will do with that. And you see that reflected in the story of Mary and Joseph.


Aaron Smith (25:20):


We’re looking for people who have been blessed by this free podcast and our free daily marriage prayer emails and who want to help be a blessing to others creating and hosting this podcast and sending out our daily emails do incur financial costs, and we want to invite you to join our faithful patron team to help financially support these resources so that they can remain free for all who need them. Please join our patron team today and become one of the faithful financial supporters who desires to help bless thousands of marriages around the world. Your support will help us pay for the creation, hosting, and promotion of our podcast and daily emails. Thank you. And we hope to see you become a marriage after God patron. Yeah. I’ve encouraged people in the past just in this idea of children because when they want to ask, so growing up in the purity culture, growing up in the church when I was younger, this idea that oh, don’t have sex before marriage because the consequences of that will be a child as if the child is a consequence, and children, they’re not a consequence to anything.

(26:23)
It’s a result of something, but it’s not a consequence. It’s not a punishment. Children are not the result of saying, well, you broke God’s law. You had sex outside of marriage, and now you have this punishment of a child. You have this consequence. No, children are never the consequence. There’s other consequences to us breaking God’s law, but children are not of them. Children’s a biological response, a gift from God that he created and made for us that is made when we do something very specific that he designed for a husband and a wife. But yeah, children are never a consequence. The intrinsic value that they have, just to reiterate what you’re saying is each and every single human being that’s ever existed and ever will exist is made in the image of God. That’s what Genesis says, and I believe that. And as believers, as Christians are this pro-life or abundant life that I want to get into in a second, starts with that belief is children are the image bearers of God. And it starts there. It doesn’t matter what they’re going to become, how they’re going to look, how they’re going to behave. They are, every single human being is made in the image of God, and they deserve reverence for that and awe for that and the same protections that we would want.


Roland Warren (27:44):


Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s really the mandate that we have. The child is the blessing and the sex outside of wedlock is the sin, and that’s what separates us from God. It’s not the child that separates us from God. It’s the sin that separates us from God. Candidly, one of the things I say as we move into this is that God used that unplanned pregnancy in Mary’s life to what end that she would become a disciple of Jesus Christ. So when you see a woman facing an unplanned pregnancy from a Christian perspective, your first thought should be not, who do I need to vote for? So she can’t have an abortion or not even really what type of material support she needs. Your first thought should be, could it be that God’s using this child so that you might become a disciple of Jesus Christ? And we always know the answer is yes,


Aaron Smith (28:34):


Of course,


Roland Warren (28:35):


Because he’s working all things towards that purpose of drawing us to him. And so when you start to think about it that way, then you see Mary’s decision and by extension the decision that anyone else faces, that you see it that way, that God is using all things for the good of those who love the Lord. So he’s using this child to draw us closer to him and for us to make that life decision.


Aaron Smith (29:01):


I love that. I want to tap into something that, so CareNet is not just in the pregnancy resource centers that are all underneath it. They’re not just pro-life. We don’t like that term. In this conversation, you guys use another term, and I would love just for you to paint that picture for us of and why your organization is so special.


Roland Warren (29:22):


And I’m going to put a fine point on this pro-life term because first off, I’m not sure I even know what that means anymore.


Aaron Smith (29:30):


Yeah, I know.


Roland Warren (29:32):


I’m just saying it’s true. So because the term was given to the politics, it doesn’t really mean any, it doesn’t have an immutable meaning anymore.

(29:47)
So this one person says, okay, okay. In all situations, why? Well, because I think the circumstances of a child’s conception in birth doesn’t determine its value and worth. So whether you’re conceived in love or you’re conceived in lust, you’re conceived in, it doesn’t matter. You still are ama day. The way that you were created, how you came into being does not determine whether you are being in a human context. And because if you accept that narrative that it does, then I mean, that’s why people that look like me were slaves because the circumstances of our conception in birth then determined our value and worth. So as a society, we’ve rejected that notion. That’s how you had kids that were called illegitimate, why they were conceived outside of marriage, and they were illegitimate bastards, right? No, no, no, no. The circumstances of your conception of birth should not determine your value and worth.

(30:39)
So I’m there. So that’s the narrative connected to Imago Day. But then this other, and I’m for, I don’t know, a 15 week ban, which is supposed to be a quote, pro-life position. 96% of abortions happen before 15 weeks. That’s the position. You’re here with a lot of pro-life politicians. I’m a 15 week ban, some pro-life organizations, we’re for a 15 week ban. That’s 96% of abortions. So if you’re going to be pro-life, candidly, shouldn’t it be determined by how many babies are actually saved as a result of your position? Not just because you say, I am a pro-life person or I, so it doesn’t mean anything anymore. It’s because it’s been co-opted by the politics which are flexible, right?


Aaron Smith (31:26):


Yeah. It’s on a quote spectrum.


Roland Warren (31:29):


It’s on a spectrum

(31:30)
Except for the baby. It’s an absolute. So when you put something on a spectrum, that’s an absolute, it’s an absolute for the baby, I get life or don’t get life. This is pretty binary, not complicated, not on a spectrum. So you’re going to have a spectrum perspective over something that’s very binary. They can’t have a kind of life, they can’t have 96% of life. They can’t. You follow what I’m saying? So that’s one of the reasons as Christians, I think we need to just reject the term now because we seeded it to the politics, and now it doesn’t even mean anything in a Christian context in terms of what we’re talking about. So into that perspective is this abundant life way of looking at issues and how we got connected. I wrote this book, why We Must Basically, the Alternative to Abortion is the name of the book and why we must be Pro Abundant Life, which folks can get on Amazon, where I’m walking through what we’re talking about now and more,


Aaron Smith (32:28):


I’ll put a link in the show notes for people to get your book. So if you’re listening to this or watching this, check the show notes. And there’s a link in there for this book.


Roland Warren (32:37):


And essentially it’s, it is helping people say, wait a minute, okay, but doesn’t mean anything. So what’s this pro abundant life? Well, it’s based on John 10 10 where Christ said, I came to the United of Life and have that life abundantly. So basically Jesus is saying, look, I ain’t pro-life. I’m pro abundant life. How do you know that? He said he was? Because he’s talking about two types of life. He’s talking about physical life, which is the word bis, where we get the word biology, bi, iOS, bisk. And then he’s also talking about Zoe, which is a unique type of spiritual life that only comes from a relationship with God. So what Jesus is saying is, I can’t relate your beos to my Zoe that you might be heartbeats that are heaven bound.


Aaron Smith (33:27):


That’s


Roland Warren (33:27):


Beautiful. Your beos to my Zoe, that you might be heartbeats that are heaven bound. Now, if you’re pro-life, you can be an atheist and be pro-life, but you can’t be an atheist and be abundant life

(33:39)
Because an atheist is not trying to solve ’em for heartbeats that are heaven balance. So when I stepped into God, this work that God called me to, I said, wait a minute. Too many Christians are kind of focused on bis and not Zoe. We got to be focused on both. And if life begins a conception, that means that what Christ wants for folk out outside of the womb is the same thing that he wants for folks inside the womb, not just life, but abundant life. And so that framework starts to define everything that we do at CareNet. We’re not a pro-life ministry, we’re a pro-life organization. We’re a abundant life ministry. And now why is that so important? As we just talked about, the pro-life term has been co-opted. It means all kinds of different things. This can’t mean all kinds of different things because it’s anchored in John 10 10, which is Christ why statement, why he came. And as we know, scripture says saying yesterday, today, and forever. So a hundred years from now, John 10 10 will still be John 10 10. I don’t know what pro life will be back then a hundred years from now, but I’m telling you that John 10 10 will still be John 10 10. So it’s actually anchored in something immutable, and it’s anchored firmly in the church.

(34:52)
And that’s why from my perspective, we start with, you must be pro abundant life, not pro-life


Aaron Smith (34:59):


Is John 10 10 is that he came to give us life and life more abundantly.


Roland Warren (35:03):


Absolutely. Yep, that’s right. Came to give us life and life more abundantly. And so he’s pro abundant life, not just life pro abundantly.


Aaron Smith (35:12):


Yeah. I think this is so important for us as believers to recognize, because each believer has to take a step back and prayerfully consider, what is my heart toward this? Because if we just have the political side of things, I have my perspective, and I just want the government to control that and to change it to fit my perspective. We’re not going to reach the hearts of people. And it’s also important to recognize that there’s a lot of people on the other side that say like, oh, you just want to save the baby, but you can care less about the woman or the family or anything like that. And that is true in many senses, in many cases where it’s like, no, we just don’t want any more abortion. We don’t want any more death like that, but figure out how the woman’s going to survive.

(36:02)
Figure out how the family’s going to thrive. That’s on you. I just care about you saving the baby. And they use that argument in a way of saying, see, you should have no say in this because if you can’t do the whole thing, then don’t do any of it. But the abundant life perspective is like, well, no, we want to save them both. We want to save, and not just them both, as you were talking about Roland, we want to save the whole family. We want to see them not just whole as a biological unit, but whole spiritually before the father. So I wanted you to dig in a little bit of how you guys incorporate this holistic ministry in, because not only do you, I just want everyone that’s listening to know that all the, how many pregnancy resource centers do you guys have? It’s a lot, right?


Roland Warren (36:50):


1,249 as of


Aaron Smith (36:52):


Today. Holy


Roland Warren (36:53):


Affiliated pregnancy centers.


Aaron Smith (36:54):


That’s amazing. They’re all over the country. I believe there’s more than Planned Parenthood, right?


Roland Warren (37:00):


Oh, yeah.


Aaron Smith (37:00):


Yeah. Way more. Not only do the pregnancy resource centers give actual free care, prenatal care to pregnant women, but they also give other services. And that’s what I would love you to dig into is what’s that holistic ministry view that you guys have at CareNet?


Roland Warren (37:19):


Yeah. Yeah. So we really are, I mean, you think about what happened, you think about what happened with Mary and Joseph and the story there. So the key part is we want to engage the guy. We want him to step in to have his Joseph moment. So while we’re encouraging the woman to tap into her inner mirror, we want to be that guy to tap into his inner Joseph to be, if possible, husband to her and a father to the child growing inside of her at a minimum to step into the role of fatherhood if we can. But we’re striving for that high idea. And I think one of the key things here is that a key driver for abortion is really missing support.

(37:58)
So from conception to birth, a woman’s making a decision about abortion, but it’s the time after birth that drives the abortion decision because that’s where her hopes and her dreams and her aspirations are. Like in the book, I have this great chart that I developed that basically it changed my life called the support needed by mothers and children. I can’t really graphically explain it, but essentially it talks about providing that support after birth. And that’s why women who have a guy who’s going to say, I’m going to be a husband to you and a father to the child going inside of you are less likely to have an abortion. That was the scenario with my wife. I mean, for the first five months of the pregnancy, I was the only one who knew. So do you think I had an influence? Of course I did. In fact, the only


Aaron Smith (38:44):


One influencing me,


Roland Warren (38:46):


Of course. And we did a national survey of women who had abortions, and we asked them, who did they tell about their abortion decision? Who was the most influential? The guy far and away, not Planned Parenthood or girlfriend, the guy. And then we asked the guy, same question, who did she tell me and who was the most influential? He said, me just like me. So connecting that father is so critical, and it’s a piece that’s been missing for 40 years in the pro-life movement. People think it’s about save the baby or love the baby, save the baby, or

(39:17)
Love them both save the mother and the baby. But that’s not really what you see in the birth of Christ. What you see is a family being formed, which is when that happens, right? She’s more likely to give the child what bis life. That’s why 87% of the women that have abortions are unmarried. So what pregnancy centers really seek to do is kind of meet that need from conception to birth, but there’s still that missing support that comes after birth. And that’s where the second piece of this abundant life perspective comes in, which is the role of the church to step into, step into that situation. And I might add too, because you mentioned the pro-choice folks, if you’re pro-choice, you have just as much an obligation to step into providing the support as a pro-life person. So this is one of the things I always do when somebody gives me the scenario that you just laid out, well, you only care about the baby being born, but you don’t care what happens after that. I always say to them, are you pro-choice or are you pro-abortion? I just want to understand. And they’ll say, well, I say, okay, what choice? I mean, there’s only two choices. Well, there’s abortion or there’s birth. So if you’re truly pro-choice, your perspective should be, I don’t care which choice the woman makes, as long as she has the right to make it. Got it. So if she chooses to have a baby, which is birth, you have just as much responsibility to support that as someone.


Aaron Smith (40:43):


That’s a good point.


Roland Warren (40:44):


You don’t get a pass. If you’re pro-abortion like Margaret Sanger or some Hitler or people like that, then basically you’re saying, no, no, you don’t have a choice here. I determine who brings children into the world. You don’t have a choice here. So Margaret Sanger was not pro-choice.


Aaron Smith (41:01):


Yeah, she was progenic.


Roland Warren (41:02):


Yes. Yes. See, it’s for sterilization, right?


Aaron Smith (41:07):


Yeah.


Roland Warren (41:08):


So if you’re a pro-abortion, that’s why I’m called pro-choice people, pro-abortion, unless they truly are, I call and then I say, okay, if you’re truly pro-choice, there are two choices. Now you’re doing everything that you can to remove the obstacles to abortion. Got it. But you should be working just as vigorously to remove the obstacles to birth.

(41:31)
And we as pro-life people let them off the hook for that because they think the kill shot as well. You don’t care about what happens to the baby after birth. Well, are you pro-choice? Yes. Well then if she chooses to bring the child into the world, even if you don’t agree with it, you have just as much responsibility of care for that child as I do my thing. My issue is I have no responsibility to support abortion, but you have the responsibility to support life. And in fact, what pregnancy centers do, you should be supporting that. You follow what I’m saying?


Aaron Smith (41:58):


Absolutely.


Roland Warren (42:00):


So that missing support piece is so critically important. And the first pillar for that missing support is engaging the guy and making sure he’s involved. But if he’s unable and willing or is not connected, that’s the role of the church. That’s the role of the church. And kind of an organizing verse for me on that is James 1 27 where it talks about religion that got, our father finds his pure and faultless caring for the orphans and the widows. When that was written, what was an orphan? It was a child without a father. What was a widow? It was a mother without a husband typically. And so all the way through the old New Testament, a metric for righteousness and justice is how you treat the most vulnerable and specifically orphans and widows. So the church has a very specific call to orphans and widows. Well, today, instead of that husband and father being dead, that proverbial husband and father may be saying to the mother and the child, you’re dead to me.


Aaron Smith (42:52):


Oh yeah.


Roland Warren (42:52):


And so the church has a very specific responsibility to come alongside those folks facing pregnancy decisions that we call single mothers and kids to step into the gap there. And to step into that very early, we need to be stepping into that. When she’s making the pregnancy decision from conception to birth, she needs to know that she’s going to have that support after birth from the body of Christ. And so we developed a ministry, a kit called Making Life Disciples, making Life Disciples, which is designed specifically to mobilize small groups in the church, to come alongside folks who are facing pregnancy decisions at risk for abortion, whether they’re in the church or outside the church. We have, I dunno, thousands, hundreds of thousands of small groups, way more small groups than ever the number of pregnancy centers.

(43:45)
Imagine if every church, there’s three 50,000 churches, at least half of them are pro-life. Imagine if all these small groups in churches committed to saying, listen, we’re going to connect with our local pregnancy center, and when someone’s facing a pregnancy decision from conception of birth, we’re going to make sure that that center, that director of that center knows that we as a church, as a body of Christ, as a small group, are going to walk alongside this woman during this pregnancy decision and ongoing why? And that goes to the second piece of a abundant life perspective. First piece is God’s design for family. But the second piece is God’s call to discipleship.

(44:21)
Because you start to see the issue as a discipleship issue. You say, oh, wait, I should look at that woman. She needs to become a disciple of Jesus Christ. The child growing inside of her needs to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. The guy who got her pregnant needs to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. So I want to step into this so that I can help happen for her. What happened for Mary, she became a disciple of Jesus Christ. So we’re going to show her the love of Christ. Life decisions need life support and the life support that’s needed that has not been mobilized the way it needs to be. Is the church seeing this issue through that lens? And that’s why I kind of blow off the politics a bit because there’s a political component and material support need. But this issue for Christians is not primarily political engagement or material support. It’s primarily a discipleship. Why? Because if it’s a good work to help someone facing a pregnancy decision, all good works for Christians, we do them for the same reason that Jesus did to make disciples,

(45:25)
To make disciples. So he linked Biaz and Zoe. And so God’s design for family, that’s the first pillar that holds up a abundant life perspective. That second pillar is God’s call to discipleship and framing the issue through a discipleship framework, which means it engages the church called to make disciples of everyone, water for the thirsty, food for the hungry clothes, for the naked homes, for the homeless, compassion for their pregnant needs to be part of how we view this. And when you view it through a discipleship framework, you can see how that’s different from a pro-life perspective, right? God’s design for family, God’s called to discipleship.


Aaron Smith (46:00):


Well, and I think that’s something that not the entire church, of course, but many churches over the decades have really dropped the ball on is an unmarried woman coming in pregnant? And it’s like, no, you can’t be here. We are not going to support that. And that’s the absolute opposite of what an unmarried pregnant woman who already knows how she feels, knows where she’s at, knows her position should be invited in and be like, Hey, we’re going to walk with you. We’re going to still tell you the truth about these things. Still encourage you with the word God says, but point you to Jesus because that’s the last person we should be pushing out just because Absolutely. Because we’re uncomfortable with the choice they made.


Roland Warren (46:44):


Yeah, no, she’s a cultural widow with a cultural orphan growing inside of her.


Aaron Smith (46:48):


No, that woman needs to be brought in.


Roland Warren (46:51):


It needs to be brought in. And part of what’s driven all this is that too often the church treated her like those guys wanted to treat the woman caught in adultery. But here’s the thing, you can’t stone the woman without stone and the baby. And what did Jesus do? He came into that setting and said, neither I condemn you, but go sin no more. In other words, come as you are, but don’t stay as you came. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

(47:16)
And I would say to you also, even just even extend this a bit further, even if that woman with the love of Christ, even she chooses to make the abortion decision, we’re still called lover. See, Peter aborted Jesus, right? He was sitting by the fire and he saw Jesus over there the way the truth and the life he aborted him. What is an abortion? An abortion is a rejection of vulnerable life. For whatever reason, you’re afraid you’re isolated, whatever it may be. And what model did Christ leave for us? What did he do with Peter? Right when he came calling the disciples, get the disciples and Peter too. Why? Because Peter felt like I am disqualified. And what did he do? He restored him. Do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me?

(47:58)
And then he missioned him. And Peter never rejected Christ ever again. I mean, he’s one of the most faithful disciples that Christ ever created or that woman that’s facing that pregnancy decision. If she made that abortion decision, well, God wants to use that. Even that to what end like Peter, that she would go and make disciples and she’d be in a very effective person with someone who’s already faced a pregnancy decision and made an abortion. It’s facing rather a pregnancy decision with abortion right there. She can say, I’ve been where you’ve been, but you’ve never been where I’ve been. Let me talk to you about


Aaron Smith (48:32):


This. Well, it reminds me of if we look at the 10 Commandments, which one of the commandments have we not broken? We’ve broken ’em all spiritually, physically. And who are we to withhold forgiveness from someone who’s had an abortion? Again, not that we would ever encourage it, that we encourage the opposite, but how are we able to show the forgiveness of Christ that he died on the cross for that also, that

(49:02)
That woman is washed by his blood, just like I’m washed by his blood, and we can receive them still with arms open and again, still preach the truth about these things while receiving these people, just like any one of us want to be received and forgiven and washed and changed, and we should never be. I just wanted to highlight this. I’m sure there are listeners that have gone through this that have made this choice whether in the past or recently, and that guilt, that shame, that weight, that heaviness, the conviction of the Holy Spirit is to lead us to repentance, and it’s to lead us to reconciliation and restoration to the Father, not to push us away. The world’s condemnation, the world’s guilt leads to death. But that conviction of the Holy Spirit that is meant to draw us closer to the Father and bring us into a place of his forgiveness, his grace, his mercy, and the church, we need to stop being afraid of these things and be the place that receives these people. Any people that have gone through these sorts of things and made these sorts of decisions with arms that are open with forgiveness and grace and mercy, the same way we desire God to have his arms open for us.


Roland Warren (50:19):


No, absolutely. One of the stories I use often to talk to women and men candidly, but women in this context that have had a past abortions, is the story of the woman with the issue of blood. Because a woman who’s had an abortion and a guy’s participated, it’s an issue of blood. It’s their flesh and blood. It’s bloody, it’s an issue of blood. And what did you see Jesus do? He restored that woman physically, emotionally, spiritually, and socially. He fully restored her, right?


Aaron Smith (50:50):


Yeah. She tried getting healing privately. He made it public.


Roland Warren (50:55):


He fully restored her because why? He linked her beos to his Zoe that she would be heartbeats that are having bowel because she was walking around saying, unclean, unclean, unclean. There are women sitting in pews in churches today that feel just like that woman, unclean, unclean, unclean. So they’re sitting there. They’re not in mission. Why? Because they feel they’re unclean. There are guys who are participating in abortion who feel like I’m unclean, unclean, unclean. So the evil one uses that to keep them out of that because that woman, she couldn’t engage in community. She couldn’t anything because she felt unclean. What did Jesus do? He set her free.

(51:33)
He set her free just like Peter. That’s the story I use for guys. Look, Peter aborted Jesus. What did he do? He was forgiven and set free. So a key part of our ministry model is actually post-abortion healing. Under our abortion recovery and care. We have a ministry called Forgiven and Set Free, which is a Bible study for women who’ve had made an abortion decision. Then we have one called Reclaiming Fatherhood for men who faced an abortion decision. You can find out more about that if you come to our website care net.org, you can learn about that. So if you’re sitting there in church thinking, I can’t involved, and what I found with a lot of times is that sometimes these people who’ve had abortions, they become pro-choice because they feel like, you know what? I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t have that, if I didn’t


Aaron Smith (52:16):


Feel justified in it.


Roland Warren (52:17):


Exactly. Some of the most ardent people are people who have not resolved the abortion decision that they made. So we’ve got two ones that are kind of out there kind of fighting for more people to have abortions because it justifies what they did. It makes them feel better. Others that are sitting in pews and sitting in homes and whatever, that feel like, I can’t speak into this issue because I made this decision that like Peter’s saying, I can’t share the gospel because I aborted the dude. And what did Jesus do? Do you love me? Do you love me? Do you love me? He restorative. So this is an issue. This is an issue for the church, and I just want to make one other final point on this to really also help people see this. The other key way to look at this life issue is that it’s about the great commandment and the great commission. See, I took, you can’t be pro-choice as a Christian. Why? Because as a Christian, there are two bookends of the Christian faith, the great commandment and the great commission. Those are two bookends.


Aaron Smith (53:22):


So


Roland Warren (53:22):


Jesus just walked around living out the great commandment to fulfill the great commission. That’s all you did all day long, just living out the great commandment to fulfill the great commission on the cross, living out the great commandment to fulfill the great commission. And what is the great commandment? It’s the three loves, and I love the version of it in Luke 10 27, where a lawyer comes to Jesus, which is great because the abortion, all the lawyers talking about this and saying, what must I do to inherit the kingdom of God? And Jesus said like, well, what’s the book say? He said, love God with love. Your heart, your soul, your strength and your mind. Love your neighbors yourself. Right? Now, when you look at that passage in the Greek, the kind of love is agape love, which is sacrificial love. And the Greek word for neighbor means near one or near fellow. So we’re supposed to sacrificially love our one or near fellow. Now the child growing inside, that woman’s womb is what her neighbor,


Aaron Smith (54:09):


Your nearest neighbor,


Roland Warren (54:11):


It’s your nearest neighbor. Because we talk about nearness in terms of proximity. I’m next to you or relationship your next to kin. So the child in the womb was hurt next to kin next to her in the most intimate way. And also for the guy who got her pregnant. The woman is his neighbor, but the child in the womb is his nearest neighbor because his bone is bone and flesh, his flesh. And what is she supposed to do? Sacrificially love that neighbor, right?

(54:34)
And we as Christians are supposed to help folks do that. Abortion violates the great commandment. Why? There are three loves within the great commandment. Love God, love neighbor, love self. Three loves abortion, violates each one of them. Abortion. It’s not a love of God when you kill one of his image bearers. It’s not a love of neighbor when you kill one of your neighbors. And frankly, it’s not a love of self when you kill one of God’s image bearers because that creates antipathy conflict between you and an almighty God that ain’t smart. So abortion violates the three loves of the great commandment, but it also violates the great commission. Why the great commission Matthew 28 19 says the go and make disciples and to teach them to obey all that Christ taught. Right? Okay. Well, who’s supposed to be your first discipleship community if you are a parent,


Aaron Smith (55:23):


Your children.


Roland Warren (55:24):


Your children?


Aaron Smith (55:25):


Yep. So


Roland Warren (55:26):


Killing one of your children is not an act of discipleship. Nope. So what you have is abortion violates the great commandment and violates the great commission. Now the lawyer understands what Jesus is saying. He’s like, oh dude. He’s like expanding what it means to be a neighbor. He’s just blowing up. So the lawyer asked the question, who’s my neighbor? Who’s my neighbor? Why? He knows Jesus just gave a pretty big mandate. He’s trying to narrow the neighborhood, and this is what I took all the time. This is where Big Bird and Mr. Rogers meet, right? Because Mr. Rogers, he’d be like, won’t you be my neighbor? He’d get a little James Brown on you. He’d be begging for that card. That’s why I wore my sweater today. Won’t you be my neighbor? Please, please, please. Won’t you be my neighbor. And big bird and his crew, they’re running around going, who are the people in my neighborhood? So the baby in the womb is saying, won’t you be my neighbor? And the culture is saying, well, who are the people in the neighborhood? And then Jesus answers that question, not with an answer, but with a story. He tells the story of the Good Samaritan.

(56:36)
And in the story of the Good Samaritan, you have a vulnerable person who cannot advocate for themselves. Sound familiar?

(56:43)
And you have religious folks going to the other side of the road, probably good reasons, maybe some religious reasons. But they went away from the near one of they aborted, the near one, the Good Samaritan went near to the near one time talent and treasure. Jesus then asked the guy, say, who was a neighbor to the man who fell? And the lawyer says, the one who showed in mercy, if you look up the word for mercy in the Hebrew, it’s got the same root as the word for compassion and the word for womb. So essentially he’s saying is the man who put, he put this man in a womb because a womb is supposed to be a place of mercy. And a baby has one language called a heartbeat. And that heartbeat is basically saying, have mercy, have mercy, have mercy, have mercy. And the mother says, I will what? I will agao you. I will you. I will aga


Jennifer Smith (57:39):


You.


Roland Warren (57:40):


So any woman who gives birth, even if she ain’t a Christian, is living out the great commandment. She’s living out the great commandment because she’s loving God because protecting one of God’s image bearers. She’s loving the image bearer. And she’s also loving herself because she’s not creating antipathy between her and God. So as a Christian, you can’t be pro-choice, not if you’re a Christian, because we’re called to live out the great commandment, to fulfill the great commission. And I really believe strongly that as this perspective goes into the church and we start to view it this way, then we see, oh my gosh, this is how the church is activated and motivated to connect to a abundant life perspective. And the final piece on that, what’s the role of God’s design for family to teach children to what? Live out the great commandment and what’s the role of God’s call to discipleship is to fulfill the great commission. So all of this is in the book. So it’s all in the book. I lay all of this out. And when you see it this way, I hope people can see this is very different from being pro-life, but it’s actually very different.

(58:42)
Very different from being pro-life, but it doesn’t lose what it means to be pro-life, right? This is a new wine in a new wine skin. It’s always existed because it’s expansive and it connects it firmly to the gospel of Jesus Christ and why Jesus came, which is as Christians, that’s how we should be operating.


Aaron Smith (59:01):


Amen. Roland, I love your passion for this. It’s exactly why I love CareNet so much. Would you just share, what’s the name of your book again? What’s How to Get access to the website and then also how everyone can get involved.


Roland Warren (59:15):


Okay. So the name of the book is The Alternative to Abortion and the subtitles, why We Must Be Pro Abundant Life. You can look it up in my name, Roland Warren. You can go to roland warren.com if you want to, and you can find how to get there. But it’s on Amazon as well. And then going to CareNet site is carenet.org, so you can learn more about CareNet and the work that we’re doing, and hopefully come alongside us, join our prayer, our prayer network. I mean, there’s so many ways to get involved in this issue and it is just a blessing to be involved in this. And I just tell people all the time, the church has to lead on this. Amen. We traded out the pulpit for a podium.


Aaron Smith (59:58):


Yep. No, this is our mandate.


Roland Warren (01:00:01):


This is our issue. No, we got to trade that podium out for the pulpit. Pastors must lead, and we as followers of Christ must be in the battle. And I really feel very strongly that the gates of hell will not prevail against the evil that abortion represents. If the church is doing to what it’s doing, which is leaving out the great commandment to fulfill the great commission to what end that we make disciples for Jesus Christ.


Aaron Smith (01:00:27):


Amen. Yeah. So my wife and I, we’ve been supporting CareNet financially for years. Thank you. Actually, whenever people buy any of our books on our website, a portion of our profits go to supporting you guys.


Roland Warren (01:00:39):


It’s just so kind, man.


Aaron Smith (01:00:40):


Thank you. Yeah, I didn’t know if anyone knew that. But yeah,

(01:00:43)
Also, we’ve sent so many marriage books to you guys for them to give away to families and husbands and wives, because we see that the holistic pictures, exactly what I believe Christ wants his church to be doing in this world. It’s not just trying to fix symptoms, but making full on solutions in Jesus Christ. So all of the links to these things will be in the show notes. So listeners, go check out the show notes, go get Rowan’s book. Go check out. And I just pray that every single person listening will choose in some way to support what you guys are doing. It’s so important.


Roland Warren (01:01:21):


Well, thank you very much. Blessings to you and blessing to all y’all up there listening.


Aaron Smith (01:01:25):


Yeah, thanks for being on the show. I really appreciate it.


Roland Warren (01:01:28):


Alright. Take care.


Aaron Smith (01:01:46):


Do you desire to pray more for your spouse? Do you desire to pray more with your spouse? We understand that you may not know where to start or maybe you feel uncomfortable praying or maybe you don’t know what to pray, or maybe you simply want to add something more to your current prayer life. This is why we wrote the Marriage Gift 365 prayers for our Marriage. We desire that it would be used as a daily reminder and catalyst for you and your spouse to grow a dynamic and consistent prayer life together. This book is a compilation of 365 unique and powerful prayers that cover a range of diverse topics that every marriage deals with. You can read it alone or ideally you read it with your spouse. Also, we hope that the topics that are brought up in these prayers would become a starting point for deeper and more intimate conversations with your spouse and a desire to seek God on these matters together. Visit the marriage gift.com today in order your copy and give your marriage the greatest gift, powerful and meaningful prayer. Visit the marriage gift.com today.



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