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In the midst of parenthood, it can be easy to get swept up in the chaos of parenting and lose sight of the joy God intended for our families. In our recent conversation with Hannah Keeley on the podcast, we discuss exactly this. Hannah—mom of seven, behavior therapist, and passionate follower of Christ—shares her journey of breaking through what she calls “Mom Fog.”
We talked about the moment Hannah had her breakthrough-she said she looked at herself in the mirror, laundry in hand, and barely recognized the woman staring back. She was exhausted, overwhelmed, and wondering if this was what motherhood was supposed to be. Then she cried out to God. And God answered in a way she wasn’t expecting. “Get up and fold your laundry.”
This was not the big miracle she was hoping for—but it was exactly what she needed to hear. That moment marked the start of her transformation. As she shared: “The most powerful strategy to get you out of a slump is often the most counterintuitive one.”
Hannah admitted she had been trying everything—strategies from her behavioral therapy background, personal development hacks—but none of it worked until she surrendered. Proverbs 14:12 became her guide: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.” She chose obedience over striving, starting with the small things—like folding laundry.
Culture says parenting is hard, marriage is harder, and joy is optional. Hannah instead turned to what Jesus said: “Take My yoke upon you… for My yoke is easy and My burden is light” (Matthew 11:29-30). If we believe parenting is joyless, we’re agreeing with the wrong voice. What if marriage and motherhood were never meant to be heavy?
Hannah emphasized living in the now, not the regret of yesterday or fear of tomorrow. As Jesus said in Matthew 6:34, “Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.” She decided to create days she wouldn’t regret—days filled with laughter, play, and presence.
“Whatever we don’t terminate, we replicate.” Our behaviors—good or bad—get passed to our kids. She challenged us to ask: What legacy am I building? What memory am I leaving behind? A scowl or a smile? A shout or a song?
Hannah reminds us that shame is the enemy’s favorite weapon against parents. But Romans 8:1 says, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” We’re not failing. We’re being refined.
Whether you’re a mom or a dad, we’re invited to embrace the joy of our calling. Let’s stop escaping the chaos and start engaging in the moment. There’s beauty, breakthrough, and blessing right here—right now.
For the full conversation with Hannah, head to our podcast. And if you’re a mom struggling with brain fog, check out her book Mom Fog or visit hannahkeeley.com.
Aaron Smith
Everyone, welcome to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. I’m here with Hannah Keeley. Welcome to the show, Hannah.
Hannah Keeley (00:57)
I’m so excited to be here, Erin, thank you.
Aaron Smith (01:00)
I have a feeling this is going to be a fun conversation just watching videos of you and seeing how you engage you. Just very energetic, very excited about life, very excited about motherhood, which I’m excited to talk about. So I’m excited to talk to you today.
Hannah Keeley (01:13)
Fantastic,
let’s get this party started.
Aaron Smith (01:16)
Yeah, I’m not sure how many of my how much of my audience is going to know much about you. So why don’t we start with who you are and what’s your background, marriage, children, all the good deeds.
Hannah Keeley (01:25)
Goodness gracious.
All right, I will try to give you the extremely condensed version. So I was a behavior therapist when Blair and I first got married and I decided to quit that, stay home when I started having kids. We didn’t know we’d have seven, but you know, they just kept coming, right? And the deal is I, like I was trained to know how to help people manage stress.
Aaron Smith (01:43)
Nice.
Hannah Keeley (01:53)
anxiety, depression, overwhelm, all this stuff with my background as a behavior therapist. And here I am with a few kids and Erin, my house was a wreck. were so broke. Like I say, we were so broke we couldn’t pay attention. It was like, let’s see which insufficient funds are we gonna take care of today? Like it was that bad, right? I had gained a lot of weight.
Aaron Smith (02:15)
Mm-hmm.
Hannah Keeley (02:20)
But the worst thing about it was I had this big old dream about how life was gonna be when I was a mom and it was not turning out to be like that. It was dismal, it was hard, it was oppressive, I didn’t like who I was becoming. And I was a behavior therapist, what the heck? Like I can’t even get myself out of this anxiety and depression. Like that was so, it was crippling to me at the time. And I remember walking into my room this one day and I was carrying a load of laundry.
with all the full intent to put on top of all the other piles of laundry that were waiting seven to 10 business days to be folded. I mean, I don’t know if you know about that whole scenario, but I got some moms in the room saying, amen, sister, I know what you’re talking about. But I walked in there and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror that we had. all I can say is I was like too young to look so old. And I was like dead mom walking. And it was like,
Aaron Smith (02:54)
yeah.
I do.
Hannah Keeley (03:18)
It just hit me like, this the life that I’ve created? Is this gonna be what it’s like? And that’s when I had a mental breakdown. Like I literally like on the floor, ugly cry, snot, tears, all, it’s not like something you see in a Lifetime movie, okay? It wasn’t pretty. It was like, I was just like crying out to God, like help me, like send something, I need, I can’t do this, I’m failing. And I clearly heard the voice of God interrupt me that day.
Aaron Smith (03:36)
Anyway.
Hannah Keeley (03:48)
And he didn’t say what I wanted him to say. He said, get up and fold your laundry. I wanted like something where, you know, I’m preaching one day and I’m like, let me tell you about this day when I was calling out to Jesus and I heard a knock on the door and there was this man who said the Holy Spirit came upon me to bring you $85,000 and like, yay. It was not that.
Aaron Smith (04:12)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (04:14)
It was something that it was the most counterintuitive thing for me to do at that time. And the reason I’m sharing this with you is not just so people know about me, but also people know about themselves because I believe the most powerful strategy to get you out of any slump you’re in right now is gonna be the one that is most counterintuitive to the one you wanna do. And I didn’t wanna do it. I didn’t wanna do it that day. I wanted a miracle. I wanted to check. I wanted someone to show up. I wanted a message from God.
Aaron Smith (04:40)
Hmm.
Hannah Keeley (04:42)
and he gave me one, but I decided at that point, okay, all of my clever strategies are not working. There’s a verse in Proverbs that says, there’s a way that seems right unto men and in the end thereof, there is death. And I was like, okay, I’m just gonna try being obedient. And I started that day to, I folded my laundry, wonder of wonders, right? I folded my laundry and I started that day to, huh? Lord, wanted to, Erin, I wanted to so bad. But I was like, okay.
Aaron Smith (05:04)
You mean you didn’t put it off? You didn’t put it off to the next day and then the next day and…
Hannah Keeley (05:12)
It’s not working this way. So let me be obedient. And I really started just being obedient, taking God’s word, using it like one of my personal development handbooks, right? And also I began that day studying the mom brain, which was so enlightening to me because the reason I was so having such a hard time is all of my strategies were not working for my brain now that had changed as I became a mom. So that’s when like it wasn’t like, three months from
There I was debt free and I was down to my goal weight like no, but it put me on the path so that I would be there and I’m so thankful for that. So that’s a little bit about me, how I got to where I am right now.
Aaron Smith (05:57)
Yeah. How long did you say you were married?
Hannah Keeley (06:00)
We’ve been married 34 years.
Aaron Smith (06:01)
34 years is incredible because anytime I talk to someone that’s been married over seven years, like, you’re an anomaly nowadays. It is amazing.
Hannah Keeley (06:09)
Wow, isn’t that amazing? I’m telling you,
our marriage is so much fun. It just gets more fun, more hotter, more sexier. It does. I love it. So yeah, it’s fun. Marriage is great.
Aaron Smith (06:27)
That’s awesome. then seven children, you’re in a, you’re, I was just telling you before we started recording that you’re in the next phase of life ahead of me. Like I’m like one phase behind you, one generation behind you. My oldest is 12 turning 13 this year. So I’m almost in the teens with my kids.
Hannah Keeley (06:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, well,
guess what? You can use my number as a helpline once you do enter the team. No, it’s all good. Don’t let anyone tell you, don’t you dare let anyone tell you that the teens are hard and don’t listen to the world. Like every phase that my kids have gone through has been absolute joy. And now I’ve got grandkids, they have their own families, I got kids in college, and it is, I just love every chapter.
Aaron Smith (06:49)
I might.
I love that. I have some questions for you because you are in a phase, and you said that the helpline thing, I was just talking to a friend and there is a lack of people like you in the world where there’s this helpline of us younger people coming up, trying to do something that we’ve never seen before. No examples in our life. This is generalized, but currently there’s a viewpoint on motherhood.
Hannah Keeley (07:33)
No, I know!
Aaron Smith (07:41)
And you even brought that up. You felt overwhelmed, felt exhausted, you felt like this isn’t what it should be. Motherhood is exhausting, it’s burdensome or optional. I just don’t want to do that. I’m just going to go this direction. I don’t know what the actress’s name is, but she’s older, much older. And she was a very famous actress and she was mourning the fact that she chose her career over ever having kids.
And then she said, I’m lonelier than I ever am. I’m ultimately lonely. And that broke my heart because I was like, I know how good it feels to have children. How do we reclaim that truth? Like what you’re talking about, this joy that you have, because there’s a lot of people listening around like, yeah, right. I watched a video of you guys talking about how you and your husband have never been in a fight before. And there was a meme right below it. And it was like, I don’t believe you. There’s a lot of people that feel that way.
Hannah Keeley (08:09)
hands.
Wow. Totally. Yeah.
You know what’s
funny? Like no one believes we’ve never fought. No one believes we have sex every day. No one believes that kind of stuff. And it’s like, guess what? I don’t care. Because I’m not doing it for a platform. I’m doing it because I have a rockin’ marriage and I love it. And we grow together and we prioritize each other. And so I think we make it too complicated too, Erin. I think we make parenting.
Aaron Smith (08:48)
Exactly.
Mm.
Hannah Keeley (09:02)
marriage. I think we make the whole thing way too complicated because Jesus said that, take my yoke upon you. It is easy. In the classic Amplified Version, says it is refreshment, recreation, and rejuvenation for your souls. Like, it doesn’t have to be hard. If it was hard, why would he say we have to be childlike to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Like, what if parenting were easy? What if marriage were easy?
Aaron Smith (09:11)
Easy. Yeah.
good.
Mm.
Hannah Keeley (09:28)
I remember people telling us before we got married, well, know, the honeymoon doesn’t last, it’s a lot of work. That is so much BS. And I mean, belief system. I don’t know what you were thinking. BS, belief, that’s just a belief system that you can believe or you can choose not to believe. Like we chose to believe that it’s fun, that it’s easy, that it’s simple. And guess what? The world will conform to your beliefs if you continue to hold them.
Aaron Smith (09:35)
Yep.
Yeah.
It’s true. And so what are some of the things that you talked about? You talked about obedience. It sounded like a moment of surrender. It’s like you’ve been trying to push this this boulder. You’re like, I’m doing using my strength, my energy. And I feel like the world has its own opinion about motherhood, about marriage that’s totally broken, totally unbiblical, totally wrong. And so how can we how can we reclaim that? Not just.
Hannah Keeley (10:15)
Hulanoi.
Aaron Smith (10:20)
I think you guys are doing it by living it. But you have seven kids, we just had our sixth. I never believed we were gonna even have one. And then we thought we were done after one and then two and… Exactly. Some people think it was more. And we prayed, there’s several times we prayed. But how can we as you guys, me and my family, how can we reclaim this identity, this idea and preach?
Hannah Keeley (10:31)
That’s why God gives you one at a time. I know. It’s like, whoa.
Aaron Smith (10:49)
the real truth about motherhood, about family that just destroys the lies that are in the current culture.
Hannah Keeley (10:56)
I think he said the word there, Erin, you said lies. And that’s the thing, like we get so indoctrinated by our culture to believe that motherhood is something that is a diminishing career, that it’s, you know, like a last resort, it’s thankless, that it’s, you know, it’s not a real success career move. Like we get so, and it’s just lies, it’s just distortion, because the enemy always likes to distort the things that are the most powerful. But,
Aaron Smith (11:08)
Hmm.
lesser.
Hannah Keeley (11:26)
I love the idea of inventing what it looks like for you. Like what if you turned off all the lies and turned off the culture and said, what if I could invent what this looks like for me? What if this could be a joyful expression of who I am? What if I could create motherhood however I want to create motherhood? So I remember like, you when I was a young mom and seeing how all the other moms were raising their kids and I remember the moment when I decided what kind of mom do I wanna be?
Like not what kind of mom is a good mom or what kind of mom is a functional or a godly. Like what if I could create what mom, being a mom is according to how God wired me. And that’s when motherhood became fun. That’s when it was like, I don’t care if they’re wearing stripes with polka dots and paisleys going to church and flip flops. Like it doesn’t matter. I wanted my children to always remember their days at home were filled with laughter, joy.
And it was fun. And that they had a mom that lived out the fullest expression of who she is. I think we forget as moms that we are creating an indelible impression in our children that will outlive us. Like we’ll be dead and gone and our children and our grandchildren will have a memory of us. What is that memory going to be like? Are they going remember your face scowling? Are they going to remember your voice shouting? Are they going to remember your back turned? Are they going to remember your head and your hands stressed?
because that’s gonna create the things that they’re gonna have to live out in their life. And I truly believe like, whatever we don’t terminate, we replicate. So if there’s great stuff you’re living in your life, replicate it, let it go down to your kids. But if there are things you don’t want your children to inherit that you may have inherited, kill it off, sister. Like do that now because otherwise you’re gonna see it show up in your kids.
Aaron Smith (13:14)
Kill it.
Mm.
Amen. And that’s true. Something my wife and I are, as we’re recognizing we’re about to step into a new season, we have a bunch of littles. God’s just totally, He’s kind of taking me and her through a very similar thing that you were talking about. Like you’re seeing, you’re looking at yourself in the mirror and you’re like, what is this? What am I looking at right now? And so we’re having to like do a lot of heart checking and just surrender to God and looking into His Word and saying, okay, God, who are, who have you made us to be? Who are we to our children?
And what kind legacy do want to leave with them? Because at the end of the day, they’re going to perpetuate that. They’re going to, of course they have their unique. Each one of them have their… I actually shared this with someone a while ago that the power of the uniqueness of our children is going to, they’re going to uniquely respond to our behavior. So like we may have a negative way of being, a bad way of being like yelling like you were talking about.
And each one of our kids are going to receive that, interpret it, and respond to it differently. But we should be aware of that. We should be aware that the way we’re behaving, the way we’re acting is going to be absorbed by them in the way God designed them and uniquely created them. And it’s something that we need to be extra aware of when we’re walking this out as mom and dad. So, know, the world tells moms they need to escape.
And to be honest, I tell dads, I feel this way. I often, my flush is like, I just need to like get away. Sometimes it’s good to have some alone time. Maybe get out of here to find keys.
Hannah Keeley (14:53)
I need to get out of here. That’s usually when a mom
says something like, I think I’m out of tampons and I need to run to Target. Really? You just want to get in the car and be alone for a minute. I totally get it.
Aaron Smith (15:06)
Yeah.
And then then dad’s like, I got to use the restroom. Sometimes we got. There’s there’s some truth, some truth to this. I’m not going to lie. But that’s a that’s a normal thing. But I think there’s a bigger picture here of feeling like peace is somewhere else outside the home. And I think you talk about this, about embracing.
Hannah Keeley (15:10)
Yeah, it’s like, dude, you’ve been there 27 minutes. Get off your phone. You’ve had a permanent line on your butt now. Yeah.
Mmm.
Aaron Smith (15:34)
our calling, embracing your calling as a mother, me embracing my calling as a father, and embracing my children. And like, this is chaotic right now and not as peaceful as I’d like it, but I’m going to embrace this. would you like to talk about that a bit?
Hannah Keeley (15:44)
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think there’s so much power in just leaning into things. And I remember making a conscious decision. Because honestly, when I chose to stay home with my kids, Blair was not making enough money for us to live on. And it was the scariest decision to stay at home. Not not that that’s everyone’s decision. It was my decision. That was right for me. That’s what God was calling me to do. And I remember thinking I
Regret is too expensive for me to pay. Like I don’t care how much I have to sacrifice. Regret is too expensive. So I remember thinking every day, I want to create a day where I don’t carry regret later. Not that, you sometimes we do carry it and it’s all right. God, he makes all things new. There’s always a new opportunity. But there is so much power in thinking, I’m just gonna do today and I’m gonna do today.
creating as little regret as possible. I’m gonna maximize the moment. If my children need me to sit on the floor with them and play, I’m gonna do that. If I need to do a little extra around the house just to make it more peaceful, I’m gonna do that. I believe I could always push the extra button that day. And so I think that’s the beauty of not future. There’s something to be said about future focusing, but for a believer, for a mom,
That’s hard to do because sometimes our negative cognitive bias is like, my future’s scary, it’s unstable. So I think that’s why Jesus said, why are you even thinking about tomorrow? Does today not hold enough for you? Or do you have to be so concerned about what you’re gonna live on tomorrow and if everything’s gonna be okay, if my kids are gonna be safe tomorrow, why can’t we just stick with today? And I believe there is power in doing right now.
Aaron Smith (17:26)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (17:40)
Because the past, that’s where the regret plays in. That’s where the brokenness plays in. The future is where the anxiety and the fear plays in. And so what if we could hold today and say, I’ve got now, what if I just maximize now? What if I stay present now? How can I show up now? And because time is this weird concept for the mom brain. Like we expand,
Aaron Smith (17:47)
Mm-hmm.
Hannah Keeley (18:10)
the minutes, but we shrink the years. And so if we could just be in that moment, and how can I show up now? And that’s where we can go to bed at the end of the day and say, you know what, I just did today, that’s all I had to do, I nailed it, let’s go.
Aaron Smith (18:29)
That’s a really powerful reminder for all of us. I’m just thinking about my listeners and even myself. My second youngest daughter now, she’s lately been just every moment she sees me, she runs up and puts her hands up and she says, hold me, pick me up, spend time with me, nonstop in my dad brain. I’m like, well, I have this thing I need to do. have this and then I hear the Holy Spirit’s like, she’s right here right now.
Hannah Keeley (18:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (18:58)
And so I’ve been trying, I’ve been trying to say yes as much as possible to her and no as little as possible. But the Bible teaches us like no one is promised tomorrow. Tomorrow is not a guarantee to anyone. But right now is all we have. All we have is this. It doesn’t. Not yet.
Hannah Keeley (18:58)
Not always gonna have that.
Yeah, and tomorrow doesn’t even exist. Yeah,
not yet. It just exists in your mind. And you can add as much positivity or negativity, do it as you want to, you get to choose that. But we’re always in the process of creating what’s next only because we fully embrace right now. And we forget that those that we most love are the easiest to overlook.
Aaron Smith (19:22)
What is?
Hannah Keeley (19:43)
You know, especially when it’s the day in and day out, especially when your child’s like, you know, hold me. I remember one time when I was at the bank and I was waiting there and I had seven kids with me, of course, because where mom goes, everybody goes. And my toddler, she was standing right beside me and she was just holding on to my pants. I looked down and said, do you want me to hold you? And she nodded and I picked her up and the teller was like, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that. I was like, what?
Aaron Smith (19:55)
Mm-hmm.
Hannah Keeley (20:11)
And she said, a mom asking the kid if she wants to be held and not the kid asking the mom to hold. And that was just made me feel like, it’s one of those God wings. It’s like, you’re doing okay, babe. You’re showing up, you’re all right. I mean, not that I’ve done everything perfectly. I’ve made horrible screw ups, you know? But in that moment, putting yourself in your children’s perspective and knowing they’re not always gonna want to be held. They’re not going to want to play with you. They’re not gonna want you to do projects with them.
Aaron Smith (20:18)
That’s good.
Hannah Keeley (20:41)
There’s been a time when they’re off on their own, they’re raising their own kids, and we always think it’s way far off until they get to an age where it’s not. And you think, wait, when was the last time I held them? When was the last time I washed their hair? When was the last time we had a tea party? And then you think, was it yesterday or was it eight years ago? Time is so crazy of a concept.
Aaron Smith (21:08)
I was thinking of that movie from, gosh, now it’s probably 20 years old. I don’t know how old it is, but with Adam Sandler called, I think it was called Click. Yeah. You’re talking and thinking like, that was such a sad movie when he’s like, I’m just going to wait for the, I’ll do this when I get my promotion in like years fly by and he doesn’t know anything.
Hannah Keeley (21:16)
Click. Yeah. Dude.
Yeah. All right. All of your listeners has,
they’ve got to go watch that. That is the next movie you watch. If you have not watched it, is Click. It’s so good.
Aaron Smith (21:36)
Yeah, but he was heartbroken because he was like, I’m just gonna push through until I get to this one goal somewhere deep in the future. He doesn’t even know what it is and he doesn’t realize that that future doesn’t exist for 20 years. And then he doesn’t even know what happened in the last 20 years, it just goes by. And I have that own fear as a father. When I look at my own life, I think I’m kind of unique in this and there’s something, I don’t know why, there’s something broken me. I don’t have very many memories of my childhood.
Hannah Keeley (21:47)
Yeah.
Mm.
Hmm.
Aaron Smith (22:01)
I don’t think it’s because of abuse or anything like that. have no recollection of anything like that, but I don’t have many memories. And I want my kids to have memories. And so I want them to know, like what you’re talking about, that they enjoyed their childhood. Was it always easy? No. Was it always perfect? No. Was mom and dad always perfect? No. I want them to know that we loved them and that we showed them who Christ was and that we tried our best to live that out for them and to walk with them in that.
Hannah Keeley (22:08)
Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
Aaron Smith (22:31)
So what you’re talking about is making me, it’s highlighting in my heart the desire that I have and the urgency to not push it off, to not wait, because there is no getting it back.
Hannah Keeley (22:41)
Right, and
you don’t get it back, but here’s another thing. There are people who they feel like, well, I have pushed it off. I haven’t always shown up. I do have regret. The enemy will use that just as much to cause shame and condemnation as a parent. So you fail to show up right now. That’s why we always have to realize, wait, right now is what I have. I don’t have yesterday. I don’t have tomorrow. Neither of those exist anymore. I have right now so I can determine how I’m going to show up.
and I’m not gonna carry regret, and I’m not gonna carry anxiety, I’m just gonna show up right now. So because the enemy will use whatever he can get his hands on to try to make you feel like you’re failing in some way, right? Like now you’re not spending enough time with your kids. whatever it is, he’s just like, he’s very clever at causing you to make decisions and then creating shame around those decisions later. And we know that in Christ there is no condemnation.
Aaron Smith (23:20)
You
Hannah Keeley (23:37)
because we’re hidden in him. So whatever your failure is, like people who are listening and they wanna know how to have a better marriage, how to have a better relationship with their kids, whatever was in the past, that is like, we live in this favor where there’s always recompense, there’s always reconciliation, there’s always restoration. So we don’t have to hold any shame or condemnation around that, because it makes all things new. Like what he could do today with your obedience can beat.
10, 20, 30 years of disobedience because he does things like that. Only he can do that. So when you have this idea of like, wanna yield to you. I don’t wanna do things my way anymore, I wanna yield. And I love the word yield instead of surrender, because surrender makes it look like two opposing forces, right, or against each other, but God is always for us. He’s always like wanting to bless us. So when we yield to him, all that means is like, I’m gonna follow you.
Aaron Smith (24:12)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I like that.
Hannah Keeley (24:35)
You’re going in this direction and I’m gonna yield and let you go first and I’m gonna follow you. And that’s where that walk of favor comes in to know he’s working everything out for good. My past, my future, he’s working it all out for my good.
Aaron Smith (24:41)
Hmm.
Yeah, because we love Him. I love that reminder. Again, you’ve been giving some good reminders. It’s like God’s for us. He’s not against us. I’m going through this devotional with the men in my church right now called Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby. And it’s this idea of God’s already at work. He’s already doing something, and He’s inviting us to join Him.
Hannah Keeley (24:58)
Good. Always.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (25:14)
And so like what you’re saying is like God was already working in your family already has a desire for your family. He’s inviting you to join him in that and the work he’s doing. There’s a verse that’s really important, I think, to women mothers. says Proverbs 14.1. says the wise woman builds her house, but the foolish pulls it down with her hands. How do you think that modern culture is pulling down the role of motherhood? Because that’s kind of what is we’re talking about. And how can we build it back up?
Hannah Keeley (25:39)
You know how we pull it down with our hands?
You know how we pull it down with our hands? This, our phone.
Aaron Smith (25:46)
Stop it. Stop convicting my phony. Just kidding. Yep.
Hannah Keeley (25:47)
I am not gonna stop it. What is in your hand that is
so important that it is taking your eyes away from your family? I mean, I’m just gonna say it. We say we have no time. We say we have no energy. We say we’re overloaded. We say that we’ve got too many things going on. Look at how much screen time you have spent buffering, distracting, escaping. It’s just the easiest thing to do.
Again, no shame, no condemnation, but we have to have this sense of what do I really want out of life? Do I want to distract myself from life or do I want to live it? And I believe the way that the foolish woman tears down her life with her hands is she puts her hands on the things that aren’t building her life.
Aaron Smith (26:35)
Thank you.
Hannah Keeley (26:38)
I mean, I just,
I remember one time I was having a, cause I did a lot of coaching for moms, right? And I’ll do like coaching calls and a lot of moms come in and this mom was like, okay, Hannah, I have no time at all. Like I’m, I’m homeschooling the kids. I’m doing all this and I’m volunteering and I, I’m trying to do some work done on the side and I have no time. And I said, okay, do you have your phone handy? She said, yes. I said, okay, I want you to go to this app, Screen Time. What number do you see there?
Aaron Smith (27:04)
Yep. How many hours?
Hannah Keeley (27:08)
four hours, 39 minutes. I said, okay, I just want you to know, let’s have clarity around this, right? Because we can’t change anything until we’re aware of it. So first, awareness. You’re spending four hours and 39 minutes distracting yourself. If that’s okay with you, cool, bump it up to five, six, seven hours. But if you can see that maybe,
Aaron Smith (27:20)
Mm.
Hannah Keeley (27:37)
you could set a limit on that. Why don’t we cut it back to two? What could you do with those two hours? What could you do with those three hours? That could help build your life now instead of tearing it down. But it was one of those times when we’re not even aware of what we’re doing and we think I’m just stressed out, I’m just overloaded, I’m just overstimulated, like fill in the blank. No, we’re making choices and we’re living in the results of those choices.
Aaron Smith (27:56)
Yeah.
Yeah, that’s a, all my listeners, I want to challenge you right now, because I’m bad at this with my phone. I’m going to tell you a little story about my phone in a second, but I want all my listeners to do this, pause this episode, go to your phone, look at your screen time app, and ask yourself if those hours were spent wisely.
Hannah Keeley (28:27)
Yeah. Now, I mean, look, I listen to podcasts. I watch YouTube videos, but I like to anchor them in with something I’m doing. So for example, in the morning, when I’m getting ready for the day and I’m getting dressed, putting on the makeup, doing my hair, then I’m playing some type of faith building podcast. you know, so are we even using that time in a way that enriches us or distracts us?
Aaron Smith (28:32)
Yes.
in the background here.
Hannah Keeley (28:56)
Because how many times do we get online and we, and I don’t care, like the algorithm just loves you so much, it knows your innermost thoughts, right? And so wherever you feel inadequate, it’s gonna feed you all the things like, here’s how you can make six figures in three months, and here’s the new downloads you need, and here’s the way to lose weight, and wait, look, you need freedom from your, like whatever. It’s like, it knows the whisperings that happen in your subconscious.
Aaron Smith (28:56)
Yes.
Yes, it does.
Hannah Keeley (29:25)
and it’s gonna feed you the things that make you feel the most inadequate so it causes you to take an action, usually with your credit card associated to it. So we have to really like check that, know, the whole check yourself before you wreck yourself and make sure that that time is actually something that is expanding our life and not diminishing it.
Aaron Smith (29:34)
Mm-hmm.
Well, you said it earlier, is it building or tearing down? Is it adding value? And the pulse scrolling thing, it’s scientifically proven. mean, was the guy that invented the infinite scroll, regrets it because of what it does. all that dopamine building up, and then when you put it away, I know this, it’s harder to be patient.
Hannah Keeley (29:50)
Right. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (30:14)
It’s harder to have self control with your emotions
and attitudes and perspective on this because that dopamine is dropping now where you have been building it up. So just biologically and scientifically, it is harmful when we’re just sitting scrolling. My daughter, my daughter this morning, because I have a problem, my phone, I’ve given my kid permission if they they can tell me to put my phone away anytime. I’m like, OK, because I’m not always aware. It just happens. I have it and it’s.
Hannah Keeley (30:27)
It is. It is.
Aaron Smith (30:41)
Sad, but it’s real. So I tell him like if you see and you want me to put it away Tell me to put away and I will and my daughter this morning. She’s like she’s four She’s like dad. She points to my phone. She’s like that’s gonna hurt this and she points to our forehead and i’m like i’m like my my mind she’s now your brain i’m like, okay, you’re you’re right and She’s I put it I put it away right then
Hannah Keeley (30:52)
Hahaha!
Mmm. Let’s go. Let’s go. That is beautiful. Well, I mean, think
about it. Our very first mandate is to, after God blesses us, you can’t even get out of the first chapter of the Bible without seeing this, is to go bear fruit. Now multiply the fruit. Now go replenish the earth. Go subdue it. And now you can have dominion. So the number one mandate is always gonna be what Satan’s gonna battle.
Aaron Smith (31:16)
and multiple.
Hannah Keeley (31:26)
is our creativity, our ability to bear fruit, to create. So everything he does is going against that mandate to create. And guess what? More creativity happens in the space of boredom. That’s when you get creative. That’s when you use your imagination. That’s when you become a producer instead of a consumer. So if you’re always consuming information, you’re not producing anything.
Aaron Smith (31:41)
You’re right.
Hannah Keeley (31:54)
So when my kids, when we first allowed them to have phones, I was like, okay, so you have to use this in a way that is fruitful. So what are you gonna create? I remember my, know, when my daughter decided she was gonna have a Barbie Instagram fashion channel. you know what? I want them to always be operating as a creator instead of a consumer because that goes with the mandate that God tells us to do. But we’re not allowed to be bored anymore.
Aaron Smith (32:10)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (32:24)
Kids aren’t allowed to be bored. You see them in a shopping cart with a screen in front of them. You see them at the table in a restaurant with a screen in front of them, anything to keep them occupied. And in that space, I mean, you can see the brain development is inhibited because they’re always fed information and not creating new information.
Aaron Smith (32:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So true. It’s good for us as parents to remember that the device thing is it could be good if it’s harnessed correctly. So we got to be training them. Something I try and only give so many like it’s like one hour on Friday and then Saturday is an option. So we keep it limited and we also give them, I like them to use like there’s a music app where they can create like beats, like a DJ app. It’s creative. And then like an art app.
Hannah Keeley (33:09)
Yeah, totally. Totally.
Aaron Smith (33:14)
Chapter one of your book, so you wrote a book called Mom Fog, right? And it’s about the mom brain and how being a mom changes the way you think and all the hormones and all the things that come with, all the moms are like, yep, I know what that is. You talk about in the first chapter and I love this idea because it starts, essentially, this is where it all starts. Our identity, God’s provision, and I’d love for you to dig into this because I think moms and dads, but moms need to be reminded.
of what is their strength? Is it them or is it something else? Is it God?
Hannah Keeley (33:49)
Well, I mean, I think first of all, we have to see that our identity as a mom, it can become so convoluted. And one thing that as soon as you become a mom, you’re already a target. So there is no more powerful person in this world than a mother. I totally believe that because a mom shapes future generations and what she does outlasts her life.
And so we’re always shaping future generations, which is why we’re the most powerful force, which is why we’re always targeted by the enemy. So go ahead and know I’m on the radar now. Like that’s, that’s just happened. It’s just, you know, I came home with a baby and now I’m on Satan’s radar because if he can get me defeated, then he can now defeat my children. So we have to, first of all, understand our positioning, who we are in the kingdom.
and then understand how to operate with compassion toward how we are as a mom, because your brain does change. Like there was recent research, it wasn’t even in my book, this came out a couple years ago, that there’s a 4 % loss, 4 % loss of gray matter in a woman’s brain after she has a baby. And so you think about this, your brain not only changes anatomically, it changes cognitively too.
because now the prioritization system is totally different in your brain. And this is why moms are like, what is wrong with me? I must have ADD, I can’t focus, I’m overstimulated, something’s wrong. And it’s not that, your brain has changed and you just don’t know how the new wiring works. And so once we can like have a lot of compassion with ourselves, we can realize, it’s not me, it’s just my brain. It’s not that I’m going crazy, it’s just my brain.
Aaron Smith (35:34)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (35:43)
And so now we can have a little more compassion and learn how to work with our brains instead of against it.
Aaron Smith (35:49)
I keep in my mic. had to, I was encouraging my wife the other day because she was feeling this way, which is totally normal. And I was like, I was like, babe, you are doing the hardest job in the world. I brought this up on a recent podcast. I was just saying men, like the most successful by the world standards, people in the world often have failed in their families, which tells me that the hardest thing to do is have a family is to be a mother.
Hannah Keeley (36:16)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (36:18)
is to be a father. And it makes sense. It makes sense. And I love the grace that we should be having for ourselves. Not that we just write things off that we do that we need to be changing in, but grace. Like, hey, this isn’t easy. And this is going to be challenging. And my brain doesn’t work the way it used to. And life is challenging. dig in more to that. Because we can sit in that spot of, I feel the way I feel right now. Crazy, overwhelmed, overstimulated.
unfocused failure, all these things that may or may not have some truth to them. How do we shift? How do you shift to that, like, okay, I’m going to rest in my identity in Christ?
Hannah Keeley (37:00)
Yeah, I think the shift can only happen, first of all, awareness. Okay, I have mom brain, it’s just something that’s going on. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with me and I’m okay. And then we have to realize the internal programming is vital. Whatever we’re telling ourselves, we are bringing about your life, your body, your children. They’re always eavesdropping on the messages that are going on in your head if you’re a mom.
And so, imagine for a mom, if you had this loud speaker hooked up to your brain, and it was blasting out to the world all of your thoughts. Would you be a little different? Because most of the thoughts are like, I’m failing, my kids deserve a better mom, I should have cleaned up the other day, I’m screwed up, I can’t focus. Just name it. We have the worst negative dialogue in our head. So we have to interrupt that.
Aaron Smith (37:39)
man.
Hannah Keeley (37:59)
When I first started working with my mom brain, we need an external stimuli to break up an internal pattern. So the internal pattern was negative, negative, negative. I’m screwing up, I’m not enough, blah, blah, blah. Right? All the things. And I had to interrupt it before I could change it. So I literally wore this whistle around my neck. Okay? You can do this several ways. I had an hourly alarm on my watch. I had this cheap Walmart watch that, you know, hourly alarm just to check what’s in my head. But also I wore a whistle around my neck.
And every time I would sense the physical tightness that would come along with the internal dialogue, I’m screwing up, I’m not a good mom, I’m failing, I would blow the whistle really loud to cause my brain to interrupt and then think another thought, create a new thought. How am I showing up? What is working out for my life? What can I be grateful for? Like when I first started working with my mom brain, I was blowing that whistle. I sounded like an Olympic coach.
Aaron Smith (38:34)
Yeah, the anxiety, yeah.
Hannah Keeley (38:58)
Okay, around the house, but it was always like I had to interrupt this internal dialogue. So I think that’s important to, you’re just going, like if you really wanna get anchored into who you are in Christ, you have to stop the lies that are being told to you by the enemy of who you’re not. Because you become whatever you tell yourself. So let’s change the dialogue and then you’ll probably change the outcome.
Aaron Smith (39:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
I think of that scripture that says, every thought captive into the obedience of Christ, breaking down strongholds and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. That’s what you’re talking about. There’s a…our thoughts, know, temptations, our flesh, they are going to shape the way we behave. They’re going to shape the way we act. They’re going to shape what we believe. And we do. We need to take those things captive. I love the physical thing that you’re doing that…I don’t what you would call it.
Hannah Keeley (39:30)
Right. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (39:51)
trigger the whistle, the alarm, yeah, to snap you out of that and be like, need to, because we often we just, we kind of operate, right? I’m just going, I’m just going. And we have these things, ways about us that are habits. And I’ve read a lot of the habit books. I really like those ones because there’s ways we can break habits and there’s ways that we can make habits and there’s ways that we can rearrange habits, but.
Hannah Keeley (39:52)
Yeah, it’s a pattern break. You have to break the pattern. Yeah.
Right.
Aaron Smith (40:18)
I think that’s a great idea of having some form, especially if it’s something that you’ve been just so prone to, find a way to physically stop the thoughts in their tracks with a whistle, an alarm, to reorientate your thoughts toward Christ, toward the Word of God, towards the actual truth that actually transforms us.
Hannah Keeley (40:37)
Yeah, yeah, because when you think about it, something’s working well. Like, there always is. Something is working well. Like, yeah, you can be in a period right now where maybe you’re struggling financially, maybe you’re struggling in your marriage, maybe you’re struggling with one of your kids, maybe you’re struggling with fear, anxiety. At any time, you can say, you know what, there’s something that’s working well. What if I focused on that? Because wherever our energy flows, we grow that very thing.
And so our thoughts are always going before us, creating the reality that we’re about to walk into. So what reality do you want to walk into? Like Job even said, the very thing I feared has happened. Well, the fear went ahead and created the thing he walked into. So what if we could say, okay, the very thing I feared has happened. So what if I could change that fear into faith? What if I, instead of imagining the worst case scenario, I could just maybe pause a minute and imagine the best case scenario. But here’s the problem.
With the mom brain, Erin, we have such a negative cognitive bias because we’re always preparing for the worst case scenario. and that’s just the mom brain. It is programmed to now, I don’t have to survive, my kids have to survive. So we’re always imagining, you know, I’m in the van and it careens off a bridge and now I’m in the water and the kids are drowning or there’s, I’ll never forget the day that my husband and I, we watched this.
Aaron Smith (41:51)
Yeah, it’s protection.
Hannah Keeley (42:05)
Do you have a movie about alien abducts? I don’t even remember what it was, right? So we go to bed, typical husband move, father move, rolls over and goes to sleep. I am up till 3.30 a.m. devising the escape route when and if aliens invade our home. So I’m like, all right, my baby, I can stick him down my shirt and I’ll tie up the shirt and I’ll put the towel on my back and I can put the oldest one down the ladder first and I can go down.
Aaron Smith (42:19)
Freaking out.
Hannah Keeley (42:34)
It’s like you think you’re freaking crazy, but then you realize, it’s just my mom brain. Maybe I’m not going crazy. Maybe I just need to interrupt that thought and say, okay, could aliens invade my house? Probably not, but it’s good that I have a escape route just in case. Now, let me be gracious with myself and imagine what probably will happen is we have a good night’s sleep and when we wake up in the morning, we’re fine.
Aaron Smith (42:50)
highly unlikely.
Hannah Keeley (43:02)
We can always imagine whatever, but we’re creating the thing we imagine. Like if we’re imagining financial ruin, then that is in essence what we’re creating. That’s why Romans, it says, do not conform to the pattern of this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind so you can test and prove what God’s will is, his good, perfect will. How do we test out God’s will? We create it in our mind. We have to create it in our mind first, or else we’ll never see it in our life.
Aaron Smith (43:28)
When you say creating your mind, what you’re saying is you have this negative thought pattern and then you have to replace it with God’s thoughts. Like, what has God said? What has God promised? Who does God say I am? And that’s how we transition, like taking the thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ. And we think His thoughts. I think there’s a scripture that it’s often around, and most specifically around actual
Hannah Keeley (43:37)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (43:58)
human relationships, like bad company corrupts good morals. But recently I had thought about that in the sense of like, often we keep company with our thoughts. What are we thinking about? What are we… what’s in our minds? What temptations are there? And if we have bad thoughts, we have improper thoughts, if we have impure thoughts, things that we’re letting exist in there without repenting of them, without rebuking them, calling them on saying that, those are not thoughts that God…
Hannah Keeley (44:08)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (44:27)
has given me. Those are not thoughts that God wants me to have. Those are thoughts that I’m allowing to exist. It’s going to corrupt the way we see our life, our self, our world, and God desires us to have self… one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. You know, that we can ask God, say, God, I’m going to repent of those thoughts. I’m thinking wrong. Help me think right. Help me walk into the truth that you’ve given me. And I think it’s in chapter 4 you talked about breaking worldly thinking.
Hannah Keeley (44:46)
Yeah.
Right, right,
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (44:57)
Is that a part of what we’re talking about?
We have these thoughts that they’re not God’s thoughts. So what are some of the ways of breaking those worldly thinking and to bring in godly kingdom thinking?
Hannah Keeley (45:10)
Yeah, well, I love this one question, and I think this is a great question to filter all your thoughts through. Is this 100 % true? Like think about it, all the thoughts around fear, the thoughts around shame, condemnation, is this 100 % true? Chances are, probably not. And if it’s not 100 % true, then there’s probably some truth out there in God’s word that could overwrite it.
So, you know, if you’re like, I can’t think any impure thoughts, now that, now whatever we resist will persist. But what if we just compassionately kind of pull the thought out and say, huh, there you are, look at you, you little funny little thing there. And we’re not a bad person, it was just a thought that popped in there. And we’re like, wait, is this 100 % true? Maybe not. That’s why when we take a thought captive, we have to understand the reason it says to take it captive is because these thoughts are crazy.
They’re rampant, they’re running around all over the place, right? It’s like chasing squirrels. And so we have to take it captive. We take the thought, we pull it out, and we look at it compassionately. Is this 100 % true? Maybe not, maybe not. I’m just gonna toss it away. But I have to have something to replace it. Because the Bible also says when a demon is cast out,
Aaron Smith (46:10)
and they’ll run around.
Hannah Keeley (46:31)
and the place is cleaned out and empty, he’s gonna bring back seven more of his demon friends and they’re gonna live there. So we’ve got to fill that space in our brain with something that is positive, encouraging, something that fits that, you know, that test of whatever’s wholesome, whatever’s good, whatever’s pure, whatever’s good or poor. Like put that in there and you will know if it works by the way you feel. We forget, we have like this spiritual amnesia, Erin. We forget how fun it is to live a godly life.
Aaron Smith (46:48)
yeah.
Hannah Keeley (47:01)
Like it feels good. We forget that. We think it feels oppressive and hard and you know, I need to beat myself over the head. I need to wear like a, you know, like a collar that shows I’m a priest or something. Like we think it’s so hard, but Jesus took all the hard off of it, went to the, took it to the cross. So we don’t have to bear this weight of being good enough and performing good enough. We can now live in the freedom of the abundance that he offers. And so now it’s not, I’m
doing something bad is maybe I had a bad thought and I can replace it, put something good in there and I feel different. I feel freer, I feel lighter, I feel more joyful. Our feelings are there to tell us what our thoughts are thinking. They’re not there to direct us. The feelings are just feelings. It’s just feedback on what we’re thinking. So if we look at it like, what was my thought? Why am I feeling this way? Well, let’s go back to the thought. Let’s take it captive, replace it with a new one, and then watch.
Aaron Smith (47:37)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (47:59)
The feeling happen as a result. We forget life’s supposed to be fun.
Aaron Smith (48:02)
That’s great.
Yeah, you’re right. often I mean, because I’ve been a Christian for a very long time and life’s not always easy. Life doesn’t always feel good. I’m not always full of joy or, you know, walking, keeping perfectly in step with the Holy Spirit. But I look at someone who’s just given their life to Christ and I see the joy and I see the excitement and the freshness and the newness and the freedom. And I’m like, that is not only true for new believers like that. That’s true now, right now.
Hannah Keeley (48:24)
you
Right, that’s why we gotta stir
up the joy of our salvation, right?
Aaron Smith (48:32)
Yes,
whether I feel like it or not, it’s still true that the joy of the Lord is my strength. The reason I feel weak is because I haven’t been walking in the joy of the Lord. I haven’t been pursuing that and asking the Holy Spirit, look, Holy Spirit, I need to be renewed today again. Like, I need more of your love and your joy and your peace in my life. I love that.
Hannah Keeley (48:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because every time you think
I’m low energy, I’m sad, I feel bad, just go back to your thoughts, dude. It always happened in your head first.
Aaron Smith (49:05)
It starts there. It starts in the mind. always tell people, so belief and faith, very synonymous. They’re often used synonymously, but they’re not. Belief is something, I don’t know how to exactly describe it, but faith is the fruit of belief. The walking out, the doing, like when you look in Hebrews when it talks about the Hall of Faith and says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. But the belief was proved out by what he did next. He did.
what God said. So he believed and it was righteous. He did what God said because he believed. And so what we believe in our minds, what we believe in our hearts, either we’re believing the lie and therefore we’re going to operate in that lie or we’re believing the truth and we’re going to operate in that truth. so essentially what I’m getting out of this is we need to replace those lies that we’re believing, replace those untruths, those things that stop us on our tracks or make us go the other way, replace them with the truth of God’s Word that then
Hannah Keeley (49:35)
Yeah,
Aaron Smith (50:05)
When you walk it, when you believe it, actually believe it, because it’s one thing to say, like, yeah, okay, see it says it there, but I don’t believe that. Therefore you’re never going to operate in that. I believe what he says. then faith is the activation of walking in that belief. You do it. You’re like, I’m to do this. Like you said, you prayed and you looked in the mirror and he’s like, go fold the laundry. You’re like, like the laundry is not going to get folded unless you fold it. And now it’s out of the way. And you’re like, my goodness, that’s awesome. So.
Hannah Keeley (50:11)
Yeah. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
Aaron Smith (50:32)
I just think that’s really beautiful. What’s some final takeaways you want to give about Mom Fogg, your book, the idea of breaking out of this exhaustion, this self-doubt? What’s a final thought you want to give?
Hannah Keeley (50:44)
I just want moms to quit with the shame. know, that Holy Spirit told me the other day that the number one weapon the enemy uses against mom is shame. You’re not showing up, you’re not enough, you’re a lousy mom. That’s not true. You’re actually gonna be hearing these words today. You’re hearing these words today because God says, have something beautiful for you, my daughter. I have something amazing for you to step into. I am for you.
I am behind you, I go before you, I’ve surrounded you with my love. I don’t remember anything from the past that you did that was wrong or bad. I don’t even know about that. I see you beautiful and pure and I’m with you and we’re gonna walk this thing out. You’re good, you’re good.
Aaron Smith (51:34)
Amen. That’s what Christ does in us, He sees Christ in us. Praise God.
Hannah Keeley (51:38)
Isn’t he good? Woo, he’s so good.
There is just no better life. Like when you’re sold out to Jesus, there is no better life. Like we forget the laughter, the joy, the freedom. I think about it, we as parents are so happy when we see our kids happy, right? Having fun, laughing, cutting up. Maybe God’s the same way. And that’s why it brings him joy.
Aaron Smith (51:48)
Amen.
We get it from here.
Hannah Keeley (52:06)
to see us children live in joy.
Aaron Smith (52:08)
Yeah, amen. Where can everyone find you?
Hannah Keeley (52:13)
at hannahkeely.com. You can definitely go there. I’m also on Instagram and I am hannahkeely and I also message everybody back. We don’t have a bot or we don’t have like a someone else. It’s me because I’d love to build relationships. Also, we have this thing called mom brain makeover. If you’re thinking you have mom brain, go check it out. It’s very helpful.
Aaron Smith (52:24)
Mm-hmm.
And then your new book is called Mom Fog. Is it new? When did it come out?
Hannah Keeley (52:37)
Yeah,
well, it’s not new, but for any mom who’s going through mom brain, it definitely is because you’ve never read anything like this before. Yeah, you can get mom fog anywhere. You can find like we do a mom fog challenge. So you can go to momfogbook.com.
Aaron Smith (52:43)
still relevant.
Love that. Hannah, thank you so much. I love seeing the joy the Lord in you and it encourages me to want more of the joy the Lord in me. So thank you so much for being on the show.
Hannah Keeley (53:00)
Awesome.
Fantastic, Aaron. This is great. Thank you so much.
Continue reading...
In the midst of parenthood, it can be easy to get swept up in the chaos of parenting and lose sight of the joy God intended for our families. In our recent conversation with Hannah Keeley on the podcast, we discuss exactly this. Hannah—mom of seven, behavior therapist, and passionate follower of Christ—shares her journey of breaking through what she calls “Mom Fog.”
We talked about the moment Hannah had her breakthrough-she said she looked at herself in the mirror, laundry in hand, and barely recognized the woman staring back. She was exhausted, overwhelmed, and wondering if this was what motherhood was supposed to be. Then she cried out to God. And God answered in a way she wasn’t expecting. “Get up and fold your laundry.”
This was not the big miracle she was hoping for—but it was exactly what she needed to hear. That moment marked the start of her transformation. As she shared: “The most powerful strategy to get you out of a slump is often the most counterintuitive one.”
On Reclaiming Joy In Motherhood
1. Obedience Is the Starting Line
Hannah admitted she had been trying everything—strategies from her behavioral therapy background, personal development hacks—but none of it worked until she surrendered. Proverbs 14:12 became her guide: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.” She chose obedience over striving, starting with the small things—like folding laundry.
2. Motherhood Isn’t Supposed to Be a Burden
Culture says parenting is hard, marriage is harder, and joy is optional. Hannah instead turned to what Jesus said: “Take My yoke upon you… for My yoke is easy and My burden is light” (Matthew 11:29-30). If we believe parenting is joyless, we’re agreeing with the wrong voice. What if marriage and motherhood were never meant to be heavy?
3. Live Today Without Regret
Hannah emphasized living in the now, not the regret of yesterday or fear of tomorrow. As Jesus said in Matthew 6:34, “Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.” She decided to create days she wouldn’t regret—days filled with laughter, play, and presence.
4. Kill the Lies, Keep the Legacy
“Whatever we don’t terminate, we replicate.” Our behaviors—good or bad—get passed to our kids. She challenged us to ask: What legacy am I building? What memory am I leaving behind? A scowl or a smile? A shout or a song?
Hannah reminds us that shame is the enemy’s favorite weapon against parents. But Romans 8:1 says, “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” We’re not failing. We’re being refined.
Whether you’re a mom or a dad, we’re invited to embrace the joy of our calling. Let’s stop escaping the chaos and start engaging in the moment. There’s beauty, breakthrough, and blessing right here—right now.
For the full conversation with Hannah, head to our podcast. And if you’re a mom struggling with brain fog, check out her book Mom Fog or visit hannahkeeley.com.
READ TRANSCRIPT
Aaron Smith
Everyone, welcome to another episode of the Marriage After God podcast. I’m here with Hannah Keeley. Welcome to the show, Hannah.
Hannah Keeley (00:57)
I’m so excited to be here, Erin, thank you.
Aaron Smith (01:00)
I have a feeling this is going to be a fun conversation just watching videos of you and seeing how you engage you. Just very energetic, very excited about life, very excited about motherhood, which I’m excited to talk about. So I’m excited to talk to you today.
Hannah Keeley (01:13)
Fantastic,
let’s get this party started.
Aaron Smith (01:16)
Yeah, I’m not sure how many of my how much of my audience is going to know much about you. So why don’t we start with who you are and what’s your background, marriage, children, all the good deeds.
Hannah Keeley (01:25)
Goodness gracious.
All right, I will try to give you the extremely condensed version. So I was a behavior therapist when Blair and I first got married and I decided to quit that, stay home when I started having kids. We didn’t know we’d have seven, but you know, they just kept coming, right? And the deal is I, like I was trained to know how to help people manage stress.
Aaron Smith (01:43)
Nice.
Hannah Keeley (01:53)
anxiety, depression, overwhelm, all this stuff with my background as a behavior therapist. And here I am with a few kids and Erin, my house was a wreck. were so broke. Like I say, we were so broke we couldn’t pay attention. It was like, let’s see which insufficient funds are we gonna take care of today? Like it was that bad, right? I had gained a lot of weight.
Aaron Smith (02:15)
Mm-hmm.
Hannah Keeley (02:20)
But the worst thing about it was I had this big old dream about how life was gonna be when I was a mom and it was not turning out to be like that. It was dismal, it was hard, it was oppressive, I didn’t like who I was becoming. And I was a behavior therapist, what the heck? Like I can’t even get myself out of this anxiety and depression. Like that was so, it was crippling to me at the time. And I remember walking into my room this one day and I was carrying a load of laundry.
with all the full intent to put on top of all the other piles of laundry that were waiting seven to 10 business days to be folded. I mean, I don’t know if you know about that whole scenario, but I got some moms in the room saying, amen, sister, I know what you’re talking about. But I walked in there and I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror that we had. all I can say is I was like too young to look so old. And I was like dead mom walking. And it was like,
Aaron Smith (02:54)
yeah.
I do.
Hannah Keeley (03:18)
It just hit me like, this the life that I’ve created? Is this gonna be what it’s like? And that’s when I had a mental breakdown. Like I literally like on the floor, ugly cry, snot, tears, all, it’s not like something you see in a Lifetime movie, okay? It wasn’t pretty. It was like, I was just like crying out to God, like help me, like send something, I need, I can’t do this, I’m failing. And I clearly heard the voice of God interrupt me that day.
Aaron Smith (03:36)
Anyway.
Hannah Keeley (03:48)
And he didn’t say what I wanted him to say. He said, get up and fold your laundry. I wanted like something where, you know, I’m preaching one day and I’m like, let me tell you about this day when I was calling out to Jesus and I heard a knock on the door and there was this man who said the Holy Spirit came upon me to bring you $85,000 and like, yay. It was not that.
Aaron Smith (04:12)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (04:14)
It was something that it was the most counterintuitive thing for me to do at that time. And the reason I’m sharing this with you is not just so people know about me, but also people know about themselves because I believe the most powerful strategy to get you out of any slump you’re in right now is gonna be the one that is most counterintuitive to the one you wanna do. And I didn’t wanna do it. I didn’t wanna do it that day. I wanted a miracle. I wanted to check. I wanted someone to show up. I wanted a message from God.
Aaron Smith (04:40)
Hmm.
Hannah Keeley (04:42)
and he gave me one, but I decided at that point, okay, all of my clever strategies are not working. There’s a verse in Proverbs that says, there’s a way that seems right unto men and in the end thereof, there is death. And I was like, okay, I’m just gonna try being obedient. And I started that day to, I folded my laundry, wonder of wonders, right? I folded my laundry and I started that day to, huh? Lord, wanted to, Erin, I wanted to so bad. But I was like, okay.
Aaron Smith (05:04)
You mean you didn’t put it off? You didn’t put it off to the next day and then the next day and…
Hannah Keeley (05:12)
It’s not working this way. So let me be obedient. And I really started just being obedient, taking God’s word, using it like one of my personal development handbooks, right? And also I began that day studying the mom brain, which was so enlightening to me because the reason I was so having such a hard time is all of my strategies were not working for my brain now that had changed as I became a mom. So that’s when like it wasn’t like, three months from
There I was debt free and I was down to my goal weight like no, but it put me on the path so that I would be there and I’m so thankful for that. So that’s a little bit about me, how I got to where I am right now.
Aaron Smith (05:57)
Yeah. How long did you say you were married?
Hannah Keeley (06:00)
We’ve been married 34 years.
Aaron Smith (06:01)
34 years is incredible because anytime I talk to someone that’s been married over seven years, like, you’re an anomaly nowadays. It is amazing.
Hannah Keeley (06:09)
Wow, isn’t that amazing? I’m telling you,
our marriage is so much fun. It just gets more fun, more hotter, more sexier. It does. I love it. So yeah, it’s fun. Marriage is great.
Aaron Smith (06:27)
That’s awesome. then seven children, you’re in a, you’re, I was just telling you before we started recording that you’re in the next phase of life ahead of me. Like I’m like one phase behind you, one generation behind you. My oldest is 12 turning 13 this year. So I’m almost in the teens with my kids.
Hannah Keeley (06:34)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Okay, well,
guess what? You can use my number as a helpline once you do enter the team. No, it’s all good. Don’t let anyone tell you, don’t you dare let anyone tell you that the teens are hard and don’t listen to the world. Like every phase that my kids have gone through has been absolute joy. And now I’ve got grandkids, they have their own families, I got kids in college, and it is, I just love every chapter.
Aaron Smith (06:49)
I might.
I love that. I have some questions for you because you are in a phase, and you said that the helpline thing, I was just talking to a friend and there is a lack of people like you in the world where there’s this helpline of us younger people coming up, trying to do something that we’ve never seen before. No examples in our life. This is generalized, but currently there’s a viewpoint on motherhood.
Hannah Keeley (07:33)
No, I know!
Aaron Smith (07:41)
And you even brought that up. You felt overwhelmed, felt exhausted, you felt like this isn’t what it should be. Motherhood is exhausting, it’s burdensome or optional. I just don’t want to do that. I’m just going to go this direction. I don’t know what the actress’s name is, but she’s older, much older. And she was a very famous actress and she was mourning the fact that she chose her career over ever having kids.
And then she said, I’m lonelier than I ever am. I’m ultimately lonely. And that broke my heart because I was like, I know how good it feels to have children. How do we reclaim that truth? Like what you’re talking about, this joy that you have, because there’s a lot of people listening around like, yeah, right. I watched a video of you guys talking about how you and your husband have never been in a fight before. And there was a meme right below it. And it was like, I don’t believe you. There’s a lot of people that feel that way.
Hannah Keeley (08:09)
hands.
Wow. Totally. Yeah.
You know what’s
funny? Like no one believes we’ve never fought. No one believes we have sex every day. No one believes that kind of stuff. And it’s like, guess what? I don’t care. Because I’m not doing it for a platform. I’m doing it because I have a rockin’ marriage and I love it. And we grow together and we prioritize each other. And so I think we make it too complicated too, Erin. I think we make parenting.
Aaron Smith (08:48)
Exactly.
Mm.
Hannah Keeley (09:02)
marriage. I think we make the whole thing way too complicated because Jesus said that, take my yoke upon you. It is easy. In the classic Amplified Version, says it is refreshment, recreation, and rejuvenation for your souls. Like, it doesn’t have to be hard. If it was hard, why would he say we have to be childlike to enter the Kingdom of Heaven? Like, what if parenting were easy? What if marriage were easy?
Aaron Smith (09:11)
Easy. Yeah.
good.
Mm.
Hannah Keeley (09:28)
I remember people telling us before we got married, well, know, the honeymoon doesn’t last, it’s a lot of work. That is so much BS. And I mean, belief system. I don’t know what you were thinking. BS, belief, that’s just a belief system that you can believe or you can choose not to believe. Like we chose to believe that it’s fun, that it’s easy, that it’s simple. And guess what? The world will conform to your beliefs if you continue to hold them.
Aaron Smith (09:35)
Yep.
Yeah.
It’s true. And so what are some of the things that you talked about? You talked about obedience. It sounded like a moment of surrender. It’s like you’ve been trying to push this this boulder. You’re like, I’m doing using my strength, my energy. And I feel like the world has its own opinion about motherhood, about marriage that’s totally broken, totally unbiblical, totally wrong. And so how can we how can we reclaim that? Not just.
Hannah Keeley (10:15)
Hulanoi.
Aaron Smith (10:20)
I think you guys are doing it by living it. But you have seven kids, we just had our sixth. I never believed we were gonna even have one. And then we thought we were done after one and then two and… Exactly. Some people think it was more. And we prayed, there’s several times we prayed. But how can we as you guys, me and my family, how can we reclaim this identity, this idea and preach?
Hannah Keeley (10:31)
That’s why God gives you one at a time. I know. It’s like, whoa.
Aaron Smith (10:49)
the real truth about motherhood, about family that just destroys the lies that are in the current culture.
Hannah Keeley (10:56)
I think he said the word there, Erin, you said lies. And that’s the thing, like we get so indoctrinated by our culture to believe that motherhood is something that is a diminishing career, that it’s, you know, like a last resort, it’s thankless, that it’s, you know, it’s not a real success career move. Like we get so, and it’s just lies, it’s just distortion, because the enemy always likes to distort the things that are the most powerful. But,
Aaron Smith (11:08)
Hmm.
lesser.
Hannah Keeley (11:26)
I love the idea of inventing what it looks like for you. Like what if you turned off all the lies and turned off the culture and said, what if I could invent what this looks like for me? What if this could be a joyful expression of who I am? What if I could create motherhood however I want to create motherhood? So I remember like, you when I was a young mom and seeing how all the other moms were raising their kids and I remember the moment when I decided what kind of mom do I wanna be?
Like not what kind of mom is a good mom or what kind of mom is a functional or a godly. Like what if I could create what mom, being a mom is according to how God wired me. And that’s when motherhood became fun. That’s when it was like, I don’t care if they’re wearing stripes with polka dots and paisleys going to church and flip flops. Like it doesn’t matter. I wanted my children to always remember their days at home were filled with laughter, joy.
And it was fun. And that they had a mom that lived out the fullest expression of who she is. I think we forget as moms that we are creating an indelible impression in our children that will outlive us. Like we’ll be dead and gone and our children and our grandchildren will have a memory of us. What is that memory going to be like? Are they going remember your face scowling? Are they going to remember your voice shouting? Are they going to remember your back turned? Are they going to remember your head and your hands stressed?
because that’s gonna create the things that they’re gonna have to live out in their life. And I truly believe like, whatever we don’t terminate, we replicate. So if there’s great stuff you’re living in your life, replicate it, let it go down to your kids. But if there are things you don’t want your children to inherit that you may have inherited, kill it off, sister. Like do that now because otherwise you’re gonna see it show up in your kids.
Aaron Smith (13:14)
Kill it.
Mm.
Amen. And that’s true. Something my wife and I are, as we’re recognizing we’re about to step into a new season, we have a bunch of littles. God’s just totally, He’s kind of taking me and her through a very similar thing that you were talking about. Like you’re seeing, you’re looking at yourself in the mirror and you’re like, what is this? What am I looking at right now? And so we’re having to like do a lot of heart checking and just surrender to God and looking into His Word and saying, okay, God, who are, who have you made us to be? Who are we to our children?
And what kind legacy do want to leave with them? Because at the end of the day, they’re going to perpetuate that. They’re going to, of course they have their unique. Each one of them have their… I actually shared this with someone a while ago that the power of the uniqueness of our children is going to, they’re going to uniquely respond to our behavior. So like we may have a negative way of being, a bad way of being like yelling like you were talking about.
And each one of our kids are going to receive that, interpret it, and respond to it differently. But we should be aware of that. We should be aware that the way we’re behaving, the way we’re acting is going to be absorbed by them in the way God designed them and uniquely created them. And it’s something that we need to be extra aware of when we’re walking this out as mom and dad. So, know, the world tells moms they need to escape.
And to be honest, I tell dads, I feel this way. I often, my flush is like, I just need to like get away. Sometimes it’s good to have some alone time. Maybe get out of here to find keys.
Hannah Keeley (14:53)
I need to get out of here. That’s usually when a mom
says something like, I think I’m out of tampons and I need to run to Target. Really? You just want to get in the car and be alone for a minute. I totally get it.
Aaron Smith (15:06)
Yeah.
And then then dad’s like, I got to use the restroom. Sometimes we got. There’s there’s some truth, some truth to this. I’m not going to lie. But that’s a that’s a normal thing. But I think there’s a bigger picture here of feeling like peace is somewhere else outside the home. And I think you talk about this, about embracing.
Hannah Keeley (15:10)
Yeah, it’s like, dude, you’ve been there 27 minutes. Get off your phone. You’ve had a permanent line on your butt now. Yeah.
Mmm.
Aaron Smith (15:34)
our calling, embracing your calling as a mother, me embracing my calling as a father, and embracing my children. And like, this is chaotic right now and not as peaceful as I’d like it, but I’m going to embrace this. would you like to talk about that a bit?
Hannah Keeley (15:44)
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think there’s so much power in just leaning into things. And I remember making a conscious decision. Because honestly, when I chose to stay home with my kids, Blair was not making enough money for us to live on. And it was the scariest decision to stay at home. Not not that that’s everyone’s decision. It was my decision. That was right for me. That’s what God was calling me to do. And I remember thinking I
Regret is too expensive for me to pay. Like I don’t care how much I have to sacrifice. Regret is too expensive. So I remember thinking every day, I want to create a day where I don’t carry regret later. Not that, you sometimes we do carry it and it’s all right. God, he makes all things new. There’s always a new opportunity. But there is so much power in thinking, I’m just gonna do today and I’m gonna do today.
creating as little regret as possible. I’m gonna maximize the moment. If my children need me to sit on the floor with them and play, I’m gonna do that. If I need to do a little extra around the house just to make it more peaceful, I’m gonna do that. I believe I could always push the extra button that day. And so I think that’s the beauty of not future. There’s something to be said about future focusing, but for a believer, for a mom,
That’s hard to do because sometimes our negative cognitive bias is like, my future’s scary, it’s unstable. So I think that’s why Jesus said, why are you even thinking about tomorrow? Does today not hold enough for you? Or do you have to be so concerned about what you’re gonna live on tomorrow and if everything’s gonna be okay, if my kids are gonna be safe tomorrow, why can’t we just stick with today? And I believe there is power in doing right now.
Aaron Smith (17:26)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (17:40)
Because the past, that’s where the regret plays in. That’s where the brokenness plays in. The future is where the anxiety and the fear plays in. And so what if we could hold today and say, I’ve got now, what if I just maximize now? What if I stay present now? How can I show up now? And because time is this weird concept for the mom brain. Like we expand,
Aaron Smith (17:47)
Mm-hmm.
Hannah Keeley (18:10)
the minutes, but we shrink the years. And so if we could just be in that moment, and how can I show up now? And that’s where we can go to bed at the end of the day and say, you know what, I just did today, that’s all I had to do, I nailed it, let’s go.
Aaron Smith (18:29)
That’s a really powerful reminder for all of us. I’m just thinking about my listeners and even myself. My second youngest daughter now, she’s lately been just every moment she sees me, she runs up and puts her hands up and she says, hold me, pick me up, spend time with me, nonstop in my dad brain. I’m like, well, I have this thing I need to do. have this and then I hear the Holy Spirit’s like, she’s right here right now.
Hannah Keeley (18:48)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (18:58)
And so I’ve been trying, I’ve been trying to say yes as much as possible to her and no as little as possible. But the Bible teaches us like no one is promised tomorrow. Tomorrow is not a guarantee to anyone. But right now is all we have. All we have is this. It doesn’t. Not yet.
Hannah Keeley (18:58)
Not always gonna have that.
Yeah, and tomorrow doesn’t even exist. Yeah,
not yet. It just exists in your mind. And you can add as much positivity or negativity, do it as you want to, you get to choose that. But we’re always in the process of creating what’s next only because we fully embrace right now. And we forget that those that we most love are the easiest to overlook.
Aaron Smith (19:22)
What is?
Hannah Keeley (19:43)
You know, especially when it’s the day in and day out, especially when your child’s like, you know, hold me. I remember one time when I was at the bank and I was waiting there and I had seven kids with me, of course, because where mom goes, everybody goes. And my toddler, she was standing right beside me and she was just holding on to my pants. I looked down and said, do you want me to hold you? And she nodded and I picked her up and the teller was like, that’s the first time I’ve ever heard that. I was like, what?
Aaron Smith (19:55)
Mm-hmm.
Hannah Keeley (20:11)
And she said, a mom asking the kid if she wants to be held and not the kid asking the mom to hold. And that was just made me feel like, it’s one of those God wings. It’s like, you’re doing okay, babe. You’re showing up, you’re all right. I mean, not that I’ve done everything perfectly. I’ve made horrible screw ups, you know? But in that moment, putting yourself in your children’s perspective and knowing they’re not always gonna want to be held. They’re not going to want to play with you. They’re not gonna want you to do projects with them.
Aaron Smith (20:18)
That’s good.
Hannah Keeley (20:41)
There’s been a time when they’re off on their own, they’re raising their own kids, and we always think it’s way far off until they get to an age where it’s not. And you think, wait, when was the last time I held them? When was the last time I washed their hair? When was the last time we had a tea party? And then you think, was it yesterday or was it eight years ago? Time is so crazy of a concept.
Aaron Smith (21:08)
I was thinking of that movie from, gosh, now it’s probably 20 years old. I don’t know how old it is, but with Adam Sandler called, I think it was called Click. Yeah. You’re talking and thinking like, that was such a sad movie when he’s like, I’m just going to wait for the, I’ll do this when I get my promotion in like years fly by and he doesn’t know anything.
Hannah Keeley (21:16)
Click. Yeah. Dude.
Yeah. All right. All of your listeners has,
they’ve got to go watch that. That is the next movie you watch. If you have not watched it, is Click. It’s so good.
Aaron Smith (21:36)
Yeah, but he was heartbroken because he was like, I’m just gonna push through until I get to this one goal somewhere deep in the future. He doesn’t even know what it is and he doesn’t realize that that future doesn’t exist for 20 years. And then he doesn’t even know what happened in the last 20 years, it just goes by. And I have that own fear as a father. When I look at my own life, I think I’m kind of unique in this and there’s something, I don’t know why, there’s something broken me. I don’t have very many memories of my childhood.
Hannah Keeley (21:47)
Yeah.
Mm.
Hmm.
Aaron Smith (22:01)
I don’t think it’s because of abuse or anything like that. have no recollection of anything like that, but I don’t have many memories. And I want my kids to have memories. And so I want them to know, like what you’re talking about, that they enjoyed their childhood. Was it always easy? No. Was it always perfect? No. Was mom and dad always perfect? No. I want them to know that we loved them and that we showed them who Christ was and that we tried our best to live that out for them and to walk with them in that.
Hannah Keeley (22:08)
Yeah. Yeah.
Right.
Aaron Smith (22:31)
So what you’re talking about is making me, it’s highlighting in my heart the desire that I have and the urgency to not push it off, to not wait, because there is no getting it back.
Hannah Keeley (22:41)
Right, and
you don’t get it back, but here’s another thing. There are people who they feel like, well, I have pushed it off. I haven’t always shown up. I do have regret. The enemy will use that just as much to cause shame and condemnation as a parent. So you fail to show up right now. That’s why we always have to realize, wait, right now is what I have. I don’t have yesterday. I don’t have tomorrow. Neither of those exist anymore. I have right now so I can determine how I’m going to show up.
and I’m not gonna carry regret, and I’m not gonna carry anxiety, I’m just gonna show up right now. So because the enemy will use whatever he can get his hands on to try to make you feel like you’re failing in some way, right? Like now you’re not spending enough time with your kids. whatever it is, he’s just like, he’s very clever at causing you to make decisions and then creating shame around those decisions later. And we know that in Christ there is no condemnation.
Aaron Smith (23:20)
You
Hannah Keeley (23:37)
because we’re hidden in him. So whatever your failure is, like people who are listening and they wanna know how to have a better marriage, how to have a better relationship with their kids, whatever was in the past, that is like, we live in this favor where there’s always recompense, there’s always reconciliation, there’s always restoration. So we don’t have to hold any shame or condemnation around that, because it makes all things new. Like what he could do today with your obedience can beat.
10, 20, 30 years of disobedience because he does things like that. Only he can do that. So when you have this idea of like, wanna yield to you. I don’t wanna do things my way anymore, I wanna yield. And I love the word yield instead of surrender, because surrender makes it look like two opposing forces, right, or against each other, but God is always for us. He’s always like wanting to bless us. So when we yield to him, all that means is like, I’m gonna follow you.
Aaron Smith (24:12)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
I like that.
Hannah Keeley (24:35)
You’re going in this direction and I’m gonna yield and let you go first and I’m gonna follow you. And that’s where that walk of favor comes in to know he’s working everything out for good. My past, my future, he’s working it all out for my good.
Aaron Smith (24:41)
Hmm.
Yeah, because we love Him. I love that reminder. Again, you’ve been giving some good reminders. It’s like God’s for us. He’s not against us. I’m going through this devotional with the men in my church right now called Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby. And it’s this idea of God’s already at work. He’s already doing something, and He’s inviting us to join Him.
Hannah Keeley (24:58)
Good. Always.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (25:14)
And so like what you’re saying is like God was already working in your family already has a desire for your family. He’s inviting you to join him in that and the work he’s doing. There’s a verse that’s really important, I think, to women mothers. says Proverbs 14.1. says the wise woman builds her house, but the foolish pulls it down with her hands. How do you think that modern culture is pulling down the role of motherhood? Because that’s kind of what is we’re talking about. And how can we build it back up?
Hannah Keeley (25:39)
You know how we pull it down with our hands?
You know how we pull it down with our hands? This, our phone.
Aaron Smith (25:46)
Stop it. Stop convicting my phony. Just kidding. Yep.
Hannah Keeley (25:47)
I am not gonna stop it. What is in your hand that is
so important that it is taking your eyes away from your family? I mean, I’m just gonna say it. We say we have no time. We say we have no energy. We say we’re overloaded. We say that we’ve got too many things going on. Look at how much screen time you have spent buffering, distracting, escaping. It’s just the easiest thing to do.
Again, no shame, no condemnation, but we have to have this sense of what do I really want out of life? Do I want to distract myself from life or do I want to live it? And I believe the way that the foolish woman tears down her life with her hands is she puts her hands on the things that aren’t building her life.
Aaron Smith (26:35)
Thank you.
Hannah Keeley (26:38)
I mean, I just,
I remember one time I was having a, cause I did a lot of coaching for moms, right? And I’ll do like coaching calls and a lot of moms come in and this mom was like, okay, Hannah, I have no time at all. Like I’m, I’m homeschooling the kids. I’m doing all this and I’m volunteering and I, I’m trying to do some work done on the side and I have no time. And I said, okay, do you have your phone handy? She said, yes. I said, okay, I want you to go to this app, Screen Time. What number do you see there?
Aaron Smith (27:04)
Yep. How many hours?
Hannah Keeley (27:08)
four hours, 39 minutes. I said, okay, I just want you to know, let’s have clarity around this, right? Because we can’t change anything until we’re aware of it. So first, awareness. You’re spending four hours and 39 minutes distracting yourself. If that’s okay with you, cool, bump it up to five, six, seven hours. But if you can see that maybe,
Aaron Smith (27:20)
Mm.
Hannah Keeley (27:37)
you could set a limit on that. Why don’t we cut it back to two? What could you do with those two hours? What could you do with those three hours? That could help build your life now instead of tearing it down. But it was one of those times when we’re not even aware of what we’re doing and we think I’m just stressed out, I’m just overloaded, I’m just overstimulated, like fill in the blank. No, we’re making choices and we’re living in the results of those choices.
Aaron Smith (27:56)
Yeah.
Yeah, that’s a, all my listeners, I want to challenge you right now, because I’m bad at this with my phone. I’m going to tell you a little story about my phone in a second, but I want all my listeners to do this, pause this episode, go to your phone, look at your screen time app, and ask yourself if those hours were spent wisely.
Hannah Keeley (28:27)
Yeah. Now, I mean, look, I listen to podcasts. I watch YouTube videos, but I like to anchor them in with something I’m doing. So for example, in the morning, when I’m getting ready for the day and I’m getting dressed, putting on the makeup, doing my hair, then I’m playing some type of faith building podcast. you know, so are we even using that time in a way that enriches us or distracts us?
Aaron Smith (28:32)
Yes.
in the background here.
Hannah Keeley (28:56)
Because how many times do we get online and we, and I don’t care, like the algorithm just loves you so much, it knows your innermost thoughts, right? And so wherever you feel inadequate, it’s gonna feed you all the things like, here’s how you can make six figures in three months, and here’s the new downloads you need, and here’s the way to lose weight, and wait, look, you need freedom from your, like whatever. It’s like, it knows the whisperings that happen in your subconscious.
Aaron Smith (28:56)
Yes.
Yes, it does.
Hannah Keeley (29:25)
and it’s gonna feed you the things that make you feel the most inadequate so it causes you to take an action, usually with your credit card associated to it. So we have to really like check that, know, the whole check yourself before you wreck yourself and make sure that that time is actually something that is expanding our life and not diminishing it.
Aaron Smith (29:34)
Mm-hmm.
Well, you said it earlier, is it building or tearing down? Is it adding value? And the pulse scrolling thing, it’s scientifically proven. mean, was the guy that invented the infinite scroll, regrets it because of what it does. all that dopamine building up, and then when you put it away, I know this, it’s harder to be patient.
Hannah Keeley (29:50)
Right. Right.
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (30:14)
It’s harder to have self control with your emotions
and attitudes and perspective on this because that dopamine is dropping now where you have been building it up. So just biologically and scientifically, it is harmful when we’re just sitting scrolling. My daughter, my daughter this morning, because I have a problem, my phone, I’ve given my kid permission if they they can tell me to put my phone away anytime. I’m like, OK, because I’m not always aware. It just happens. I have it and it’s.
Hannah Keeley (30:27)
It is. It is.
Aaron Smith (30:41)
Sad, but it’s real. So I tell him like if you see and you want me to put it away Tell me to put away and I will and my daughter this morning. She’s like she’s four She’s like dad. She points to my phone. She’s like that’s gonna hurt this and she points to our forehead and i’m like i’m like my my mind she’s now your brain i’m like, okay, you’re you’re right and She’s I put it I put it away right then
Hannah Keeley (30:52)
Hahaha!
Mmm. Let’s go. Let’s go. That is beautiful. Well, I mean, think
about it. Our very first mandate is to, after God blesses us, you can’t even get out of the first chapter of the Bible without seeing this, is to go bear fruit. Now multiply the fruit. Now go replenish the earth. Go subdue it. And now you can have dominion. So the number one mandate is always gonna be what Satan’s gonna battle.
Aaron Smith (31:16)
and multiple.
Hannah Keeley (31:26)
is our creativity, our ability to bear fruit, to create. So everything he does is going against that mandate to create. And guess what? More creativity happens in the space of boredom. That’s when you get creative. That’s when you use your imagination. That’s when you become a producer instead of a consumer. So if you’re always consuming information, you’re not producing anything.
Aaron Smith (31:41)
You’re right.
Hannah Keeley (31:54)
So when my kids, when we first allowed them to have phones, I was like, okay, so you have to use this in a way that is fruitful. So what are you gonna create? I remember my, know, when my daughter decided she was gonna have a Barbie Instagram fashion channel. you know what? I want them to always be operating as a creator instead of a consumer because that goes with the mandate that God tells us to do. But we’re not allowed to be bored anymore.
Aaron Smith (32:10)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (32:24)
Kids aren’t allowed to be bored. You see them in a shopping cart with a screen in front of them. You see them at the table in a restaurant with a screen in front of them, anything to keep them occupied. And in that space, I mean, you can see the brain development is inhibited because they’re always fed information and not creating new information.
Aaron Smith (32:32)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
So true. It’s good for us as parents to remember that the device thing is it could be good if it’s harnessed correctly. So we got to be training them. Something I try and only give so many like it’s like one hour on Friday and then Saturday is an option. So we keep it limited and we also give them, I like them to use like there’s a music app where they can create like beats, like a DJ app. It’s creative. And then like an art app.
Hannah Keeley (33:09)
Yeah, totally. Totally.
Aaron Smith (33:14)
Chapter one of your book, so you wrote a book called Mom Fog, right? And it’s about the mom brain and how being a mom changes the way you think and all the hormones and all the things that come with, all the moms are like, yep, I know what that is. You talk about in the first chapter and I love this idea because it starts, essentially, this is where it all starts. Our identity, God’s provision, and I’d love for you to dig into this because I think moms and dads, but moms need to be reminded.
of what is their strength? Is it them or is it something else? Is it God?
Hannah Keeley (33:49)
Well, I mean, I think first of all, we have to see that our identity as a mom, it can become so convoluted. And one thing that as soon as you become a mom, you’re already a target. So there is no more powerful person in this world than a mother. I totally believe that because a mom shapes future generations and what she does outlasts her life.
And so we’re always shaping future generations, which is why we’re the most powerful force, which is why we’re always targeted by the enemy. So go ahead and know I’m on the radar now. Like that’s, that’s just happened. It’s just, you know, I came home with a baby and now I’m on Satan’s radar because if he can get me defeated, then he can now defeat my children. So we have to, first of all, understand our positioning, who we are in the kingdom.
and then understand how to operate with compassion toward how we are as a mom, because your brain does change. Like there was recent research, it wasn’t even in my book, this came out a couple years ago, that there’s a 4 % loss, 4 % loss of gray matter in a woman’s brain after she has a baby. And so you think about this, your brain not only changes anatomically, it changes cognitively too.
because now the prioritization system is totally different in your brain. And this is why moms are like, what is wrong with me? I must have ADD, I can’t focus, I’m overstimulated, something’s wrong. And it’s not that, your brain has changed and you just don’t know how the new wiring works. And so once we can like have a lot of compassion with ourselves, we can realize, it’s not me, it’s just my brain. It’s not that I’m going crazy, it’s just my brain.
Aaron Smith (35:34)
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (35:43)
And so now we can have a little more compassion and learn how to work with our brains instead of against it.
Aaron Smith (35:49)
I keep in my mic. had to, I was encouraging my wife the other day because she was feeling this way, which is totally normal. And I was like, I was like, babe, you are doing the hardest job in the world. I brought this up on a recent podcast. I was just saying men, like the most successful by the world standards, people in the world often have failed in their families, which tells me that the hardest thing to do is have a family is to be a mother.
Hannah Keeley (36:16)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (36:18)
is to be a father. And it makes sense. It makes sense. And I love the grace that we should be having for ourselves. Not that we just write things off that we do that we need to be changing in, but grace. Like, hey, this isn’t easy. And this is going to be challenging. And my brain doesn’t work the way it used to. And life is challenging. dig in more to that. Because we can sit in that spot of, I feel the way I feel right now. Crazy, overwhelmed, overstimulated.
unfocused failure, all these things that may or may not have some truth to them. How do we shift? How do you shift to that, like, okay, I’m going to rest in my identity in Christ?
Hannah Keeley (37:00)
Yeah, I think the shift can only happen, first of all, awareness. Okay, I have mom brain, it’s just something that’s going on. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with me and I’m okay. And then we have to realize the internal programming is vital. Whatever we’re telling ourselves, we are bringing about your life, your body, your children. They’re always eavesdropping on the messages that are going on in your head if you’re a mom.
And so, imagine for a mom, if you had this loud speaker hooked up to your brain, and it was blasting out to the world all of your thoughts. Would you be a little different? Because most of the thoughts are like, I’m failing, my kids deserve a better mom, I should have cleaned up the other day, I’m screwed up, I can’t focus. Just name it. We have the worst negative dialogue in our head. So we have to interrupt that.
Aaron Smith (37:39)
man.
Hannah Keeley (37:59)
When I first started working with my mom brain, we need an external stimuli to break up an internal pattern. So the internal pattern was negative, negative, negative. I’m screwing up, I’m not enough, blah, blah, blah. Right? All the things. And I had to interrupt it before I could change it. So I literally wore this whistle around my neck. Okay? You can do this several ways. I had an hourly alarm on my watch. I had this cheap Walmart watch that, you know, hourly alarm just to check what’s in my head. But also I wore a whistle around my neck.
And every time I would sense the physical tightness that would come along with the internal dialogue, I’m screwing up, I’m not a good mom, I’m failing, I would blow the whistle really loud to cause my brain to interrupt and then think another thought, create a new thought. How am I showing up? What is working out for my life? What can I be grateful for? Like when I first started working with my mom brain, I was blowing that whistle. I sounded like an Olympic coach.
Aaron Smith (38:34)
Yeah, the anxiety, yeah.
Hannah Keeley (38:58)
Okay, around the house, but it was always like I had to interrupt this internal dialogue. So I think that’s important to, you’re just going, like if you really wanna get anchored into who you are in Christ, you have to stop the lies that are being told to you by the enemy of who you’re not. Because you become whatever you tell yourself. So let’s change the dialogue and then you’ll probably change the outcome.
Aaron Smith (39:00)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Mm.
I think of that scripture that says, every thought captive into the obedience of Christ, breaking down strongholds and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God. That’s what you’re talking about. There’s a…our thoughts, know, temptations, our flesh, they are going to shape the way we behave. They’re going to shape the way we act. They’re going to shape what we believe. And we do. We need to take those things captive. I love the physical thing that you’re doing that…I don’t what you would call it.
Hannah Keeley (39:30)
Right. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (39:51)
trigger the whistle, the alarm, yeah, to snap you out of that and be like, need to, because we often we just, we kind of operate, right? I’m just going, I’m just going. And we have these things, ways about us that are habits. And I’ve read a lot of the habit books. I really like those ones because there’s ways we can break habits and there’s ways that we can make habits and there’s ways that we can rearrange habits, but.
Hannah Keeley (39:52)
Yeah, it’s a pattern break. You have to break the pattern. Yeah.
Right.
Aaron Smith (40:18)
I think that’s a great idea of having some form, especially if it’s something that you’ve been just so prone to, find a way to physically stop the thoughts in their tracks with a whistle, an alarm, to reorientate your thoughts toward Christ, toward the Word of God, towards the actual truth that actually transforms us.
Hannah Keeley (40:37)
Yeah, yeah, because when you think about it, something’s working well. Like, there always is. Something is working well. Like, yeah, you can be in a period right now where maybe you’re struggling financially, maybe you’re struggling in your marriage, maybe you’re struggling with one of your kids, maybe you’re struggling with fear, anxiety. At any time, you can say, you know what, there’s something that’s working well. What if I focused on that? Because wherever our energy flows, we grow that very thing.
And so our thoughts are always going before us, creating the reality that we’re about to walk into. So what reality do you want to walk into? Like Job even said, the very thing I feared has happened. Well, the fear went ahead and created the thing he walked into. So what if we could say, okay, the very thing I feared has happened. So what if I could change that fear into faith? What if I, instead of imagining the worst case scenario, I could just maybe pause a minute and imagine the best case scenario. But here’s the problem.
With the mom brain, Erin, we have such a negative cognitive bias because we’re always preparing for the worst case scenario. and that’s just the mom brain. It is programmed to now, I don’t have to survive, my kids have to survive. So we’re always imagining, you know, I’m in the van and it careens off a bridge and now I’m in the water and the kids are drowning or there’s, I’ll never forget the day that my husband and I, we watched this.
Aaron Smith (41:51)
Yeah, it’s protection.
Hannah Keeley (42:05)
Do you have a movie about alien abducts? I don’t even remember what it was, right? So we go to bed, typical husband move, father move, rolls over and goes to sleep. I am up till 3.30 a.m. devising the escape route when and if aliens invade our home. So I’m like, all right, my baby, I can stick him down my shirt and I’ll tie up the shirt and I’ll put the towel on my back and I can put the oldest one down the ladder first and I can go down.
Aaron Smith (42:19)
Freaking out.
Hannah Keeley (42:34)
It’s like you think you’re freaking crazy, but then you realize, it’s just my mom brain. Maybe I’m not going crazy. Maybe I just need to interrupt that thought and say, okay, could aliens invade my house? Probably not, but it’s good that I have a escape route just in case. Now, let me be gracious with myself and imagine what probably will happen is we have a good night’s sleep and when we wake up in the morning, we’re fine.
Aaron Smith (42:50)
highly unlikely.
Hannah Keeley (43:02)
We can always imagine whatever, but we’re creating the thing we imagine. Like if we’re imagining financial ruin, then that is in essence what we’re creating. That’s why Romans, it says, do not conform to the pattern of this world. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind so you can test and prove what God’s will is, his good, perfect will. How do we test out God’s will? We create it in our mind. We have to create it in our mind first, or else we’ll never see it in our life.
Aaron Smith (43:28)
When you say creating your mind, what you’re saying is you have this negative thought pattern and then you have to replace it with God’s thoughts. Like, what has God said? What has God promised? Who does God say I am? And that’s how we transition, like taking the thoughts captive to the obedience of Christ. And we think His thoughts. I think there’s a scripture that it’s often around, and most specifically around actual
Hannah Keeley (43:37)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (43:58)
human relationships, like bad company corrupts good morals. But recently I had thought about that in the sense of like, often we keep company with our thoughts. What are we thinking about? What are we… what’s in our minds? What temptations are there? And if we have bad thoughts, we have improper thoughts, if we have impure thoughts, things that we’re letting exist in there without repenting of them, without rebuking them, calling them on saying that, those are not thoughts that God…
Hannah Keeley (44:08)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (44:27)
has given me. Those are not thoughts that God wants me to have. Those are thoughts that I’m allowing to exist. It’s going to corrupt the way we see our life, our self, our world, and God desires us to have self… one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control. You know, that we can ask God, say, God, I’m going to repent of those thoughts. I’m thinking wrong. Help me think right. Help me walk into the truth that you’ve given me. And I think it’s in chapter 4 you talked about breaking worldly thinking.
Hannah Keeley (44:46)
Yeah.
Right, right,
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (44:57)
Is that a part of what we’re talking about?
We have these thoughts that they’re not God’s thoughts. So what are some of the ways of breaking those worldly thinking and to bring in godly kingdom thinking?
Hannah Keeley (45:10)
Yeah, well, I love this one question, and I think this is a great question to filter all your thoughts through. Is this 100 % true? Like think about it, all the thoughts around fear, the thoughts around shame, condemnation, is this 100 % true? Chances are, probably not. And if it’s not 100 % true, then there’s probably some truth out there in God’s word that could overwrite it.
So, you know, if you’re like, I can’t think any impure thoughts, now that, now whatever we resist will persist. But what if we just compassionately kind of pull the thought out and say, huh, there you are, look at you, you little funny little thing there. And we’re not a bad person, it was just a thought that popped in there. And we’re like, wait, is this 100 % true? Maybe not. That’s why when we take a thought captive, we have to understand the reason it says to take it captive is because these thoughts are crazy.
They’re rampant, they’re running around all over the place, right? It’s like chasing squirrels. And so we have to take it captive. We take the thought, we pull it out, and we look at it compassionately. Is this 100 % true? Maybe not, maybe not. I’m just gonna toss it away. But I have to have something to replace it. Because the Bible also says when a demon is cast out,
Aaron Smith (46:10)
and they’ll run around.
Hannah Keeley (46:31)
and the place is cleaned out and empty, he’s gonna bring back seven more of his demon friends and they’re gonna live there. So we’ve got to fill that space in our brain with something that is positive, encouraging, something that fits that, you know, that test of whatever’s wholesome, whatever’s good, whatever’s pure, whatever’s good or poor. Like put that in there and you will know if it works by the way you feel. We forget, we have like this spiritual amnesia, Erin. We forget how fun it is to live a godly life.
Aaron Smith (46:48)
yeah.
Hannah Keeley (47:01)
Like it feels good. We forget that. We think it feels oppressive and hard and you know, I need to beat myself over the head. I need to wear like a, you know, like a collar that shows I’m a priest or something. Like we think it’s so hard, but Jesus took all the hard off of it, went to the, took it to the cross. So we don’t have to bear this weight of being good enough and performing good enough. We can now live in the freedom of the abundance that he offers. And so now it’s not, I’m
doing something bad is maybe I had a bad thought and I can replace it, put something good in there and I feel different. I feel freer, I feel lighter, I feel more joyful. Our feelings are there to tell us what our thoughts are thinking. They’re not there to direct us. The feelings are just feelings. It’s just feedback on what we’re thinking. So if we look at it like, what was my thought? Why am I feeling this way? Well, let’s go back to the thought. Let’s take it captive, replace it with a new one, and then watch.
Aaron Smith (47:37)
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Hannah Keeley (47:59)
The feeling happen as a result. We forget life’s supposed to be fun.
Aaron Smith (48:02)
That’s great.
Yeah, you’re right. often I mean, because I’ve been a Christian for a very long time and life’s not always easy. Life doesn’t always feel good. I’m not always full of joy or, you know, walking, keeping perfectly in step with the Holy Spirit. But I look at someone who’s just given their life to Christ and I see the joy and I see the excitement and the freshness and the newness and the freedom. And I’m like, that is not only true for new believers like that. That’s true now, right now.
Hannah Keeley (48:24)
you
Right, that’s why we gotta stir
up the joy of our salvation, right?
Aaron Smith (48:32)
Yes,
whether I feel like it or not, it’s still true that the joy of the Lord is my strength. The reason I feel weak is because I haven’t been walking in the joy of the Lord. I haven’t been pursuing that and asking the Holy Spirit, look, Holy Spirit, I need to be renewed today again. Like, I need more of your love and your joy and your peace in my life. I love that.
Hannah Keeley (48:53)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because every time you think
I’m low energy, I’m sad, I feel bad, just go back to your thoughts, dude. It always happened in your head first.
Aaron Smith (49:05)
It starts there. It starts in the mind. always tell people, so belief and faith, very synonymous. They’re often used synonymously, but they’re not. Belief is something, I don’t know how to exactly describe it, but faith is the fruit of belief. The walking out, the doing, like when you look in Hebrews when it talks about the Hall of Faith and says Abraham believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness. But the belief was proved out by what he did next. He did.
what God said. So he believed and it was righteous. He did what God said because he believed. And so what we believe in our minds, what we believe in our hearts, either we’re believing the lie and therefore we’re going to operate in that lie or we’re believing the truth and we’re going to operate in that truth. so essentially what I’m getting out of this is we need to replace those lies that we’re believing, replace those untruths, those things that stop us on our tracks or make us go the other way, replace them with the truth of God’s Word that then
Hannah Keeley (49:35)
Yeah,
Aaron Smith (50:05)
When you walk it, when you believe it, actually believe it, because it’s one thing to say, like, yeah, okay, see it says it there, but I don’t believe that. Therefore you’re never going to operate in that. I believe what he says. then faith is the activation of walking in that belief. You do it. You’re like, I’m to do this. Like you said, you prayed and you looked in the mirror and he’s like, go fold the laundry. You’re like, like the laundry is not going to get folded unless you fold it. And now it’s out of the way. And you’re like, my goodness, that’s awesome. So.
Hannah Keeley (50:11)
Yeah. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
All right.
Aaron Smith (50:32)
I just think that’s really beautiful. What’s some final takeaways you want to give about Mom Fogg, your book, the idea of breaking out of this exhaustion, this self-doubt? What’s a final thought you want to give?
Hannah Keeley (50:44)
I just want moms to quit with the shame. know, that Holy Spirit told me the other day that the number one weapon the enemy uses against mom is shame. You’re not showing up, you’re not enough, you’re a lousy mom. That’s not true. You’re actually gonna be hearing these words today. You’re hearing these words today because God says, have something beautiful for you, my daughter. I have something amazing for you to step into. I am for you.
I am behind you, I go before you, I’ve surrounded you with my love. I don’t remember anything from the past that you did that was wrong or bad. I don’t even know about that. I see you beautiful and pure and I’m with you and we’re gonna walk this thing out. You’re good, you’re good.
Aaron Smith (51:34)
Amen. That’s what Christ does in us, He sees Christ in us. Praise God.
Hannah Keeley (51:38)
Isn’t he good? Woo, he’s so good.
There is just no better life. Like when you’re sold out to Jesus, there is no better life. Like we forget the laughter, the joy, the freedom. I think about it, we as parents are so happy when we see our kids happy, right? Having fun, laughing, cutting up. Maybe God’s the same way. And that’s why it brings him joy.
Aaron Smith (51:48)
Amen.
We get it from here.
Hannah Keeley (52:06)
to see us children live in joy.
Aaron Smith (52:08)
Yeah, amen. Where can everyone find you?
Hannah Keeley (52:13)
at hannahkeely.com. You can definitely go there. I’m also on Instagram and I am hannahkeely and I also message everybody back. We don’t have a bot or we don’t have like a someone else. It’s me because I’d love to build relationships. Also, we have this thing called mom brain makeover. If you’re thinking you have mom brain, go check it out. It’s very helpful.
Aaron Smith (52:24)
Mm-hmm.
And then your new book is called Mom Fog. Is it new? When did it come out?
Hannah Keeley (52:37)
Yeah,
well, it’s not new, but for any mom who’s going through mom brain, it definitely is because you’ve never read anything like this before. Yeah, you can get mom fog anywhere. You can find like we do a mom fog challenge. So you can go to momfogbook.com.
Aaron Smith (52:43)
still relevant.
Love that. Hannah, thank you so much. I love seeing the joy the Lord in you and it encourages me to want more of the joy the Lord in me. So thank you so much for being on the show.
Hannah Keeley (53:00)
Awesome.
Fantastic, Aaron. This is great. Thank you so much.
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