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Abby Johnson’s journey from working in the abortion industry to becoming a pro-life advocate is a powerful testament to God’s truth and redemption. Once a director at Planned Parenthood, she now dedicates her life to speaking out against the deception she once believed.
Abby was raised in a Christian home, but abortion was never discussed. Her parents assumed the church would address difficult topics, while the church assumed parents were handling these conversations at home. As a result, she entered college naive and uninformed.
When she met a woman from Planned Parenthood who convinced her they were helping women in need, it resonated with her. Wanting to serve others, she got involved, unaware of the deception she was stepping into. Over time, her heart hardened, and she even had two abortions herself, justifying them as necessary, and living in blindness to the truth. Proverbs 14:12 says, ‘There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end, it leads to death.’ This was Abby’s path until God intervened.
As Abby climbed the ranks at Planned Parenthood, she eventually became a clinic director. But then, one moment changed everything. She was asked to assist with an ultrasound-guided abortion. What she saw was a 13-week-old baby fighting for his life against the abortion instruments. Psalm 139:13-14 tells us that God knits us together in our mother’s womb, and we are fearfully and wonderfully made. At that moment, Abby realized the truth-this was a human life.
The reality shattered every lie she had believed. She walked away from Planned Parenthood, terrified but certain that she could no longer be a part of it. Many women who have had abortions struggle with feelings of guilt and unworthiness. Abby was no exception. The enemy whispered that her sins were too great for forgiveness. But Isaiah 1:18 says, ‘Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.’ Christ’s sacrifice covers even the deepest of sins. When Abby truly accepted His forgiveness, she felt the weight lift off of her. She no longer lived in shame, but in the freedom of God’s grace.
Abby is now a mother, and raising her children with a strong pro-life foundation is very important to her. Her children have never had to be explicitly told that abortion is wrong—they simply understand that life is sacred. Abby shows her children ultrasounds, teaches them that every child is a blessing (Psalm 127:3), and affirms that they are fearfully and wonderfully made by God. She believes it is the responsibility of parents, not schools, the government, or even the church, to instill these values in their children. If parents don’t teach them the truth, the world will teach them lies.
The world if often offended by the truth regarding abortion and the gospel itself is offensive to those who reject it, but that doesn’t mean we should stay silent. 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 reminds us that truth will offend those who do not believe. But if we love people, we must tell them the truth.
For those who have had an abortion, there is healing in Jesus. Choosing life is not just about the unborn—it’s about choosing life for yourself as well. Abby encourages those facing an unplanned pregnancy to seek out ministries that offer real support and healing. No one is alone in this battle. God has a plan, even in the most difficult circumstances.
“I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.” – Deuteronomy 30:19
Aaron Smith (01:41.569)
Everyone welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God Podcast. Sitting here with Abby Johnson. Abby, welcome to the show.
Abby Johnson (01:47.08)
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Aaron Smith (01:48.943)
You have made a name for yourself. My wife and I saw the movie Unplanned. When did that come out? A few years ago? The long?
Abby Johnson (01:57.202)
came out in
Abby Johnson (01:57.828)
March of 2019.
Aaron Smith (02:00.367)
2019, okay, quite a few years ago actually. But it was very impactful for me. I have a hard time watching movies like that because I get really emotional movies and hard movies about those types of topics are very hard for me. But it is so necessary. The conversation that you’ve been having with the world and it’s the conversation that the church should have been having for a long time. And we’re just now we the role we stepping into it more because it’s so necessary.
Aaron Smith (02:29.007)
But why don’t we start off with, because I don’t know if my audience knows you very well, why don’t we start off with some of the biographical stuff. Who are you? What’s a little bit of your background? And maybe you can share a bit of your testimony of where you were, because you used to work at Planned Parenthood, and now you are as pro-life as it gets, you’re as Jesus-loving as it gets, and your job is the exact opposite.
Abby Johnson (02:40.232)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (02:50.066)
Yeah, yeah. So I’m a 44 year old mother of eight. I’ve been married to my husband for 19 years and used to work at Planned Parenthood. I left Planned Parenthood 15 years ago. I cannot believe it’s been that long. Started working there in 2001.
Abby Johnson (03:18.158)
I was in college. am a proud Texas Aggie. went to school there, was a dumb college kid, didn’t, you know, thought I knew everything. Grew up in a conservative Christian home, did not talk about abortion in my house. think, you know, I’m an only child. My parents were just kind of like, you know,
Abby Johnson (03:47.366)
We’ve raised Abby in the church. Certainly they’re talking about all the hard things in youth group. And the church was like, certainly the parents are talking about all the hard things at home. And so that resulted in nobody talking about any of the hard things. And so when I went to college, I was very naive and sheltered and just really ignorant, just like in the pure sense of the word about any worldly.
Aaron Smith (03:54.041)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (04:17.116)
things. And so, met a woman with Planned Parenthood. She told me about the organization, how amazing it is, how wonderful it is, how they’re there to help women. And, you know, don’t you want to help women? Don’t you want to help poor women? You know, of course you do. If you don’t, you’re just like a bigot. And so I was like, yeah, of course, you know, and started talking about feminism. I didn’t know what that was.
Aaron Smith (04:17.838)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (04:37.647)
Hmm.
Abby Johnson (04:44.092)
but it sounded like something my parents would hate. So I was like, yeah, I want to do that, you know? And got involved and that was kind of it. I mean, once I was in, know, Satan got a hold of me. The enemy got a hold of my heart and my mind and my behaviors. And I ended up going on to have two abortions myself. I murdered two of my own children just through selfishness.
Abby Johnson (05:13.94)
and just sinfulness. And I went on to have a failed marriage. The guy that I got pregnant with, I ended up marrying him, super common. Our marriage failed, of course. And then continued to work at Planned Parenthood, ended up meeting my current husband.
Abby Johnson (05:43.408)
while I was working at Planned Parenthood, he was pro-life. He was always pro-life throughout our relationship and our marriage made dinner conversations a little tense. But I would say Doug and I were very unequally yoked, I would say. But he just kept…
Aaron Smith (05:58.063)
Hmm.
Abby Johnson (06:12.232)
praying for me, you know, and he just prayed and prayed. My parents were praying and praying. you know, I tell people this all the time. I think, you know, the Bible talks about, you know, the Lord will set before us life and death. And, you know, we are to choose life. And in those circumstances, and during my time at Planned Parenthood, I feel like the Lord was constantly putting in front of me life and death. And, you know, it’s not, I mean, it’s…
Abby Johnson (06:40.85)
The Bible says life and death, but it’s like good and evil, right? Wickedness and righteousness, right? The Lord and Satan. Like what are you choosing in those instances, right? Like when sin is put in front of you, like what are you choosing? And those opportunities were put in front of me all the time in Planned Parenthood. And I mean, in everyday life, right? mean, sin is put in front of us and what do you choose, right? And I think every time…
Aaron Smith (06:44.207)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (07:08.71)
We’re in those situations and we choose sin. We choose the enemy over God. We choose wickedness over righteousness, over holiness. There’s a hardness that falls over our heart. There’s a callousness that forms. And that hardness, that callousness, it almost creates a separation. There’s a wall that goes up between us and God and we don’t hear Him.
Aaron Smith (07:20.239)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (07:37.5)
You know, we don’t feel him, we don’t sense him, we don’t want to be in relationship with him. We want to be separated from him. And that’s really what happened to me for eight years. I mean, I grew up knowing better. I grew up a believer. I knew better, right? I knew what I was doing was sinful. And I’m gonna tell you how I knew it was sinful because the day that I signed up to be a part of Planned Parenthood, I did not go home and tell my parents.
Aaron Smith (07:39.309)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (07:54.436)
Mm
Aaron Smith (08:06.095)
You weren’t excited about it, you weren’t proud about it.
Abby Johnson (08:07.056)
And I tell kids all the time, no, and I tell kids all the
Abby Johnson (08:11.5)
time, if you grew up with Bible believing, God fearing parents, never trust a decision that you would not tell them about. I didn’t tell my parents, I didn’t tell my parents I was working in Planned Parenthood for a year and a half. I kept a secret from them. And I didn’t tell them I had abortions. I didn’t tell them when I was going to a pride parade.
Aaron Smith (08:22.297)
That’s a good bit of advice.
Abby Johnson (08:35.942)
right, to support Plain Parenthood. I didn’t tell them all of these like things I was participating in that was wicked, that were wicked. Because I knew I didn’t want my parents to be disappointed. And why would they be disappointed, right?
Aaron Smith (08:37.23)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (08:48.057)
So I got a quick
Aaron Smith (08:50.119)
question for you. Was the conviction you were feeling, was it you just knew that they weren’t going to agree with it and so you were avoiding it or you’ve also felt a conviction of like, I shouldn’t be doing this and they’re gonna not like that either.
Abby Johnson (09:05.128)
think it was a little bit of both. I think I didn’t want to hear the lecture, right? I think that was part of it. I think there was almost like a part of it. I think there was almost like an embarrassment. Like I didn’t want to have to justify what I was doing to my parents and to my family. Like I didn’t want my grandma to know that I was like working in an abortion clinic. I didn’t want my family to know what I was doing. I think there was like a sense of embarrassment.
Aaron Smith (09:18.543)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (09:29.07)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (09:33.062)
there, like what I was doing, but like, why would I be embarrassed, right? If I’m doing the right thing. So there was always that struggle going on inside of me for a while. I mean, eventually it got to a point where I was like, I don’t care, right? Like I’m, I don’t care. You know, the hardness takes over and like, you don’t care. You don’t feel like you have to justify it anymore. But yeah, that was me for eight years. I was, I was in that world for eight years.
Aaron Smith (09:37.314)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (09:46.949)
yeah, that hardness.
Abby Johnson (09:59.708)
The last year I was there, you I eventually become the director. I eventually like take over and I’m kind of running things. And that last year, things kind of were changing for me. I was starting to see things for what they really were. And I remember thinking, okay, is it that everything is changing or is it that now I’m just so high up on the ladder?
Aaron Smith (10:26.637)
You’re seeing things.
Abby Johnson (10:26.938)
in the abortion world that
Abby Johnson (10:28.208)
I’m finally seeing it for what it’s been all along. And I realized now it was the latter, right? It wasn’t that things were changing. Like this is who we had been all along. We were all about abortion all the time. But I was just now finally seeing it. And so I finally ended up leaving after witnessing a live ultrasound guided abortion procedure where I saw a 13 week old baby fight and struggle for his life against the abortion instruments.
Aaron Smith (10:31.438)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (10:37.412)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (10:52.558)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (10:55.426)
And that’s what caused me to leave. I think it was like seeing that the humanity of this child, that we had the same humanity. We had equal humanity. We were the same. We were just different sizes in different places. But that same instinct to fight for his life was the same instinct that I would have. You know, seeing that child’s heartbeat and seeing the, you know, his heartbeat getting faster.
Aaron Smith (11:04.654)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (11:17.039)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (11:24.422)
because he was afraid, because he was feeling pain. That’s the same type of humanity that I have. That’s the same feeling that I would have, right? And I just thought, my gosh, like just this reality came over me in a way that I had not felt before. And my eyes were open that day. It was really like a kind of a Damascus moment for me. And I ended up leaving. Totally, yeah.
Aaron Smith (11:35.054)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (11:49.081)
God was ripping that veil away, making it
Aaron Smith (11:52.752)
totally transparent so you can know exactly what’s going on. There’s a, sorry, good.
Abby Johnson (11:55.75)
Yep. Yeah. And I ended up leaving and that was kind of it.
Abby Johnson (11:59.793)
That’s kind of like the rest of the story. Like Planned Parenthood sued me to keep me quiet. They tried to get a gag order against me. That obviously failed. And I’ve been talking about it ever since.
Aaron Smith (12:05.933)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (12:14.029)
Well, there’s so much just packed in the initial, your just your initial testimony, separate from what you’ve been doing since then. There’s just so much going on. the ultrasound, you you’re experiencing the the abortion through the ultrasound being able to visibly see this baby. It’s something that’s very important. I just want all my listeners to recognize the power of these ultrasounds. There’s ministries out there that they go around showing ultrasounds to people so that they can see the baby because this
Abby Johnson (12:22.952)
Mm.
Aaron Smith (12:43.693)
this blindness that’s been the deception that’s been over the many people in this world right now about abortion is this idea of like, it’s not a real life. It’s not, you know, it’s less than life. It’s not, you know, a human yet, which is totally biologically and scientifically and biblically and every aspect wrong. But they’re deceived. They believe in this lie. And then many of these people when they see an ultrasound for the first time, it’s like their eyes are open. They’re like, I can’t.
Aaron Smith (13:10.603)
argue against that I can’t continue to walk in my deception. It’s a powerful ministry. if you in your town, if you have any ministries like that, give free ultrasounds like in our area and all over the country, there’s Pregnancy Resource Centers. It’s like the exact opposite of Planned Parenthood. They give actual free services and they help women and fathers. But anyways, that story is amazing. I want to take a step back. You talked about being raised in a Christian home.
Aaron Smith (13:37.487)
Is there anything, you know, looking back, know hindsight could, know, quote unquote be 2020 and it’s easy to look back and judge everything from where we’re currently at, but is there something now as a mother and, know, and your husband being a father that you look back and you, do you think there’s something your parents could have done if they were, you talked about the church not speaking about your parents not speaking about, is there something that they could have done to help protect against you falling into that deception?
Abby Johnson (14:06.79)
Yeah, so, you know, my parents and I have actually talked about this. Like, when I was growing up, I think that the common mantra was, well, if you get pregnant, you know, you’re not going to be able to bring that baby home to our house. you’re, you know, like that was kind of like what everybody grew up hearing. That was like what all, you know, me and my friends heard growing up. It was like, well, you know, we’re not raising that baby. Like, if you get pregnant, we’re not raising that baby. Like, you’re going to be on your own, you know, like that kind of…
Aaron Smith (14:20.247)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (14:31.107)
Yeah, very negative.
Abby Johnson (14:36.316)
which is not true. Like that’s not how my parents are at all. Like my parents are amazing and they would have helped me through it. But like, I did hear that from my mom. Like I did, my parents are married. Like they’ve been married for almost 50 years. But like I do remember hearing that from my mom. Like if girls would get pregnant in high school or something. I remember my mom, you know, she was the woman at that time. She’s a very different woman now. But at that time,
Aaron Smith (14:38.764)
It’s not.
Aaron Smith (14:45.273)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (15:06.781)
Abby Johnson (15:09.314)
she would be the one that was like, why are we having baby showers at church for the woman who’s, know, for the girl who got pregnant outside of marriage, right? It’s like we’re celebrating her sin. And so I kind of grew up hearing that as a young person, you know? And so when I got pregnant outside of marriage, I was like, gosh, like I can’t go tell my parents, you know, because they’re not gonna be accepting, they’re not.
Aaron Smith (15:16.157)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (15:20.749)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (15:38.352)
I need my dad was a deacon in the church. Like I was like, my gosh, this would be so embarrassing for them. This would be humiliating for them. Like for them to have to say like their daughter has gotten pregnant outside of marriage, you know. And now like my parents are like, gosh, we wish we would have done differently. Like we wish we would have done that differently. We wish we would have sat down and had a different conversation with you. And so, you know, the only thing that we can do now is like,
Aaron Smith (15:58.478)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (16:08.36)
do differently for our kids, right? So we have eight kids, my oldest daughter is 18, she has a boyfriend. They’re like amazing, they’re an amazing couple. They’re both very faithful. But, and I know that like they’re holding very strict physical boundaries, like my, you know, it’s kind of, I mean, I don’t know, it’s kind of my daughter’s responsibility. I always tell her, boys are the gas, girls are the brakes.
Aaron Smith (16:10.35)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (16:32.836)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (16:35.768)
So I tell her like you’re, you know, that’s kind of your responsibility to hold the physical boundary in the relationship. And she’s done a really good job of that. But, you know, we did like I sat down with both like her and Colby, her boyfriend one day and I was like, listen, we expect you got we know that your expectation is to, you know, to uphold that physical boundary to be God honoring. And we expect that.
Abby Johnson (17:05.234)
to be the case, but I also know that things can happen. And, you know, we know that there’s grace, right? And I was like, I always want, I want you to know, I want both of you to know that if you ever have that positive pregnancy test, you will never come to me and your dad with a positive pregnancy test and not be met with joy. There will never be a time.
Aaron Smith (17:15.469)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (17:33.102)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (17:35.048)
where you come to your mom and dad and you say, mom, I’m pregnant. It doesn’t matter if you’re 18, it doesn’t matter if you’re married, it doesn’t matter if you’re unmarried, doesn’t matter if you’re in the middle of college, it doesn’t matter if you’re in high school, it doesn’t matter when it is. A baby is always treated as a blessing in this home. A baby is always gonna be met with joy and happiness and delight. And your mom will always be happy to be a grandmother. It doesn’t matter what…
Aaron Smith (17:50.671)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (18:03.758)
what the situation is. And if it’s not a part of the plan that you made for yourself, we will walk with you in that different plan of life, in that different course of life. And so, like, I wanted them to know, just like, I wanted to have a different conversation with her, right, than that conversation that was had with me. That there’s never a time where she ever needs to feel scared when she has that positive pregnancy test, even if it’s…
Aaron Smith (18:11.225)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (18:22.499)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (18:32.22)
different than what she envisioned. Like I never want her to feel like she’s going to be unsupported by her family. I never want her to even have a glimmer of thought that she needs to darken the door of an abortion facility. That never even needs to be a consideration for any of my children. And the thing is, is that
Aaron Smith (18:39.983)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (18:49.027)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (18:57.864)
There’s a lot of pro-life kids that walk into abortion clinics. The majority of people having abortions are kids between the ages of 20 and 24 who are going to church. Those are the majority of kids. So if you really want to fight this battle, if you really want to fight the enemy on this, we’ve got to start talking to our kids very openly and honestly about it.
Aaron Smith (19:01.997)
Yep.
Abby Johnson (19:26.866)
We’ve got to start having these conversations and we have to start telling them that children are welcome in our home and that abortion never needs to be an option and that disappointment is never going to befall on our household because a baby is coming.
Aaron Smith (19:33.806)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (19:46.511)
What you’re talking about is, know, legislation is good. Like, politically fighting for laws and rules to mitigate against, you know, the death cult. This idea of children are a burden and need to be removed. That’s one thing. But that’s such a small portion of this conversation. It’s like, that’s like…
Aaron Smith (20:08.141)
We’re too far down the road. Now we need to figure out legislation. What you’re talking about is exactly what us as mothers and fathers, you all my listeners need to recognize is this conversation, where this is stemming from is the defacing of God’s image. starts with what is our definition of a child if the definition is like someone having sex out of wedlock. that…
Aaron Smith (20:36.173)
child is a consequence to your sin. That’s actually not true. The consequence to our sin is that being further from God, is feeling that distance, is the separation from God. The child is not a consequence. No, the Bible calls children blessings like what you’re just saying. So if we start in our homes, like we try and tell our kids all the time just the blessing that they are,
Abby Johnson (20:43.814)
Yeah, separation from God.
Aaron Smith (20:58.083)
that children are blessings even when we, know, days are hard because we have six kids, we just had our sixth. Eight is amazing, by the way, going from being an only child to having an that’s incredible. But starting with the conversation of just life, that they are good and blessings and I’m thankful for them. And then also the second part of that is talking about, you know, sex is not sinful, inherently.
Abby Johnson (21:07.292)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (21:24.323)
There’s so many good things in this life that God’s given us that can be used in sinful ways. But sex is a good thing. It’s a gift. And so talking about in the right context with our children and making it open and understanding sin also, sin and grace and it’s so much more than just, let’s just, you know, they’re good. We read the Bible, so they’re going to have, you know, a clear context of all this. Just to touch back on what you talking about with that hardness of your heart.
Aaron Smith (21:53.871)
The Bible over and over over again warns against the deceitfulness of sin that it will harden our hearts to hear the truth that we will be deceived by sin. You you take those steps in making sinful actions and we continue to know it’s not the Holy Spirit and we continue to walk in that way and our hearts, they solidify into these rocks that have a hard time receiving truth or believing truth. And so we need to be as parents battling that in our homes and not expecting the pastors of our churches to do it.
Aaron Smith (22:21.623)
not expecting the teachers in our schools to do it, not expecting anyone else in the world, not legislators, not presidents, to align our children’s hearts with the truth about who humans are, you know?
Abby Johnson (22:32.018)
We
Abby Johnson (22:33.909)
expect too many other people to parent our children. I do not expect anyone else to parent my children. I do not expect teachers of my kids to parent my children. We don’t homeschool our kids. Our kids go to a private parochial school. And I love their school, but I don’t expect their teachers, who are good holy people, to parent my children. I am to parent my children. The government sure as heck is not going to parent my children.
Aaron Smith (22:36.879)
too many.
Aaron Smith (22:56.367)
Exactly.
Abby Johnson (23:01.58)
I do not expect my pastor to parent my children. I don’t expect the youth group, the youth leaders to parent my children. I am solely responsible. God has put them on loan to me, for me to parent, and my job is to give them back to Him. And that is my, really, my sole responsibility. God put me in a position as my vocation, my primary vocation is to be a wife
Aaron Smith (23:13.071)
Yeah, you’re a steward.
Abby Johnson (23:30.834)
first and to be a mother second. And that, I mean, that’s it. I’m not, my vocation is not to be a pro-life advocate. My vocation is not to be a public speaker. My vocation is not to be a podcast host. My vocation is not to do any of those things. I do that because I’m compelled to do that by Christ because he’s called me to do that. But that is not my vocation.
Aaron Smith (23:33.401)
Amen.
Abby Johnson (23:56.442)
And we have that so wrong. I think so many people have that so wrong. And I had it so wrong for many years of my life. And I think even after I left Planned Parenthood, I had it wrong for so long. And I was ignoring the the gift of vocation that God had given me. And I think a lot of us get into that because we’re like, we’re doing a good thing, right? Like we’re doing like kingdom work.
Aaron Smith (24:19.694)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (24:23.448)
Like that’s what we say, like we’re doing kingdom work, so it’s okay. But it’s never okay to allow other people to step in and parent your children. It’s never okay to ignore your children to do like quote unquote God’s work, right? Because God’s work is overseeing the children and the gifts that he’s given you right in your own home. That actually is God’s work for you, right?
Aaron Smith (24:24.174)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (24:31.566)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (24:38.21)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (24:45.507)
Am I?
Aaron Smith (24:48.427)
My phrase for that
Aaron Smith (24:49.268)
is don’t sacrifice family on the altar of ministry. Our wife, our husband, our spouses, and our children are absolute, 100 % first and most important ministry. Everything else is ancillary to that. yeah. Even if it’s good.
Abby Johnson (24:53.318)
Yeah, exactly.
Abby Johnson (25:04.188)
Yes, 100 percent, even if it’s good, right? Like, it’s not
Abby Johnson (25:07.911)
like I was out in the club, like getting drunk or something, neglecting my kids, right? I was like doing good things. I’m like trying to help save babies, right? But I was still sacrificing my own kids to help save the lives of other kids. And that’s not what God wants me to do. And so I think we can get caught up in that with church culture, with ministry, with all kinds of other things. And…
Aaron Smith (25:12.036)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (25:16.813)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (25:22.575)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (25:29.977)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (25:33.18)
And so, yeah, so I think we all have to prioritize that in our lives because I think good people get caught up in that. And I know I did. I mean, I know I did for many years. I had to reprioritize my whole life to make sure that I was fulfilling the vocation that God gave me. So yeah, and I always encourage parents, like my kids are very open with me. I’m very open with my kids about the mistakes I’ve made.
Aaron Smith (25:41.665)
Absolutely.
Abby Johnson (26:02.566)
the challenges I’ve had, the challenges I still have. And I think that’s important. I think that’s been a very important part of my parenting. My kids is, mean, part of it is I do live a very open life. I mean, there’s a whole movie about mistakes I’ve made. So I don’t have a choice but to be open. But I think for me, like, I just…
Aaron Smith (26:06.105)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (26:20.303)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (26:30.916)
I know that Satan is coming for our children. I see it every day. I see how he’s coming for them, even just through the games they play, the phones they use, what’s out there, know, that Satan is coming for them. Like he’s not really coming for me anymore, right? I mean, not to say that I don’t experience like spiritual attacks and stuff, sure. But like, I’m already set in my beliefs, right? Like he’s kind of done coming and coming and coming for me, right?
Aaron Smith (26:41.9)
It’s everything.
Aaron Smith (26:53.294)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (26:59.954)
but he’s not done coming for my kids. There is a target on all of our children’s backs and Satan is constantly coming on attack for them. And so, like I want my kids to know how I have fought against Satan. I want them to see me fighting for them. I want them to see me praying for them. I want them to see me taking the daggers and the punches for them. I want them to see me warring for them.
Abby Johnson (27:29.256)
against the enemy. Because I want them to be ready for it. Because it’s going to happen to them too. And that’s generational, right? If they see us fighting against the enemy, they will learn how to fight against the enemy too. And we’re not living in a culture where we can pretend like, know, our kids don’t know about abortion until they’re 15 or 16 years old. our kids are so innocent and pure and we don’t want to…
Abby Johnson (27:57.932)
We don’t want to take their innocence away. We don’t live in that culture anymore. It doesn’t matter if you homeschool, it doesn’t matter if you try to shelter your kids, doesn’t matter if you try to keep them innocent for so long. That’s just not the culture that we live in anymore. And it’s better for your kids to hear from you about these issues. It’s better for your kids to be open and honest with you about it. That’s what will keep them in dialogue with you.
Aaron Smith (28:12.451)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (28:25.542)
That’s what will keep your relationship open and we need more more parents to just be honest and open and talk about your failures and the things that you struggle with, the things you’re continuing to struggle with. That’s what keeps open dialogue with your kids.
Aaron Smith (28:40.195)
Yeah, the most powerful tool we have against sin is the light. You know, we drag things from the darkness into the light, it becomes light. If we try and hide things so that we, because we don’t want to expose our kids to something, if we try and hide our failures, all we do is end up looking like hypocrites because we behave one way and we say another rather than like coming to them and just being honest like, these are choices I’ve made in the past and these were wrong choices. And these were choices that had consequences.
Abby Johnson (28:44.626)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (29:09.043)
And using those as an example to our kids to teach them how to have open and transparent and repentant hearts, to recognize that when they fail, that doesn’t define them, but that when they repent and turn back to God, that’s what defines them. so that’s a good example. And also a good message for all of us and all those listening is our role to our children is the most important role we have, and there’s no one that can replace it.
Aaron Smith (29:36.799)
But there’s plenty of people that want to replace it. They will they will speak to our kids. They will teach our kids, but they won’t teach them what we want How do you how would you encourage? So you’ve had two abortions And I can hear it in your voice like I know you’re where your heart is out on that and I know that you love the Lord and I know that you look back not with shame necessarily, but probably with just a Thankfulness for the forgiveness and the grace that
Abby Johnson (30:03.507)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (30:03.577)
God has for you but
Aaron Smith (30:05.923)
There’s many people that they’ve made mistakes. They’ve made choices out of either ignorance or willfulness. They’ve sinned against God. They’ve done something and it may not have been abortion, but often when we do those things, we immediately feel disqualified, which in many senses in like official church roles, it might disqualify us from that, but it doesn’t disqualify us from our relationship with God.
Aaron Smith (30:32.205)
It doesn’t disqualify us from being able to, like you said, talk to our children about those things. Because there’s been times in my life that sins in my life that I had in the past makes me feel like I can’t talk to someone or encourage someone or remind someone of the truth. How would you encourage a woman or a husband that’s got that in the back of their mind? The enemy’s using their past sin to make them feel unworthy to be able to speak truth to their kids or to a friend or their spouse? Because it’s not true. That’s what I’m getting at.
Abby Johnson (30:59.174)
Yeah. No,
Abby Johnson (31:01.836)
it’s not. It’s definitely not true. I think, I mean, the enemy does use that though, for sure. And people, the enemy will use other people to speak that into your life as well. Right? So I hear that all the time. Like, so you wanted the option.
Aaron Smith (31:07.331)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (31:22.588)
to, you you wanted to be able to use your right to choose twice, but now you’re taking it away from other women. Like I hear that all the time on social media, right? And I’m like, okay, I’m like, just get behind me, Satan, right? Like I’m like, no, I am out here telling women why that is a devastating choice. I’m out here trying to, you would never, and they don’t do that with anything else, right? They do that only with abortion.
Aaron Smith (31:30.313)
Yeah, straight from the math-o-devil.
Aaron Smith (31:37.61)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (31:48.505)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (31:50.408)
Like nobody is out here telling the leaders of Alcoholics Anonymous, okay, so you wanted to be able to drink, but now you’re telling other people the devastating effects of alcoholism. Like nobody’s out here doing that, right? Like nobody’s out here telling people, you know, in the NA, so you wanted to use drugs, but now nobody does that with anything else except abortion.
Aaron Smith (31:59.875)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (32:03.843)
That’s a really good point. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (32:18.196)
And that is just the devil that just shows you like how satanic and how satanic abortion is and how just like rooted in sin abortion is. mean it is like it abortion is a demonic sacrifice. Whether or not the women know when they’re walking in, I’m participating in a demonic sacrifice. It doesn’t matter.
Aaron Smith (32:32.312)
yeah, absolutely.
Aaron Smith (32:42.829)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (32:44.54)
The devil doesn’t need them to actually know that they’re participating in it for it to be a demonic sacrifice, right? The devil rejoices every time innocent blood is spilled. And that’s what abortion is. And he is rejoicing every time an innocent child is killed in the name of choice. And so it’s a devastating thing that we’ve done to these children. It’s a devastating thing that we’ve done to our world.
Aaron Smith (33:04.473)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (33:14.374)
And it’s a devastating thing that we’ve done to families. And we see the effects of abortion on our nation. We see the effects of abortion in our culture. We see the hardness of heart that is taken over women and men and families. And so I think that, you know, that is to feel ashamed of something that you’ve repented of. And this was me for a long time. Like, I felt like…
Abby Johnson (33:42.172)
you know, how could God ever forgive me of that? And then I finally realized like, how prideful is that? Like, I am so small, my sin is so small compared to the greatness of God. And like, how ridiculous is that? For me to think that my sin, something that came from evil, right? Something that came from Satan, obviously God is so much greater than Satan, but I’m saying to God,
Aaron Smith (33:45.206)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (33:50.243)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (34:11.128)
something that came from evil is actually bigger than your forgiveness, right? And that’s ridiculous. God is bigger than any sin I could ever commit. He’s bigger than a million sins that I could ever commit, right? Because he conquers evil every time. And so I was not allowing God, I was in my pride, which is a sin in itself, I was not allowing God to do his good work in me. And so,
Aaron Smith (34:15.981)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (34:27.747)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (34:38.627)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (34:39.836)
that I had to lay that down. That was a sin in itself. So I had to lay that down and just allow him to just do this work in me. And I had to put all that down. And now, I’m not a woman. There’s women that stand in abortion clinics that say, I regret my abortion. I’m not a woman that really can stand out there and say, I regret my abortion. Do I wish I would have made a different decision back then? Yes.
Abby Johnson (35:09.17)
Would it have changed the trajectory of my life if I would have not had that first abortion? Yes, absolutely. Do I wish I would have not murdered two of my children? Yes. But I don’t walk around in regret because God does not want us to walk around living a life of regret. He wants us to live a life of freedom. And that’s why He took on our sins, right? That’s why He our sin on at His crucifixion.
Aaron Smith (35:34.585)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (35:39.172)
so that we wouldn’t have to walk around carrying the burden of sin and carrying that guilt and carrying that shame. so truly, at some point in time when I was able to give up that pride and I was able to really just give everything over to Him and say, okay, God, use it, like do something with it, use me, use my past sin, use this shame, use this guilt, just do whatever you want to with it.
Abby Johnson (36:08.892)
There was truly this like unburdening. was just like, I just felt very, I felt like I was just coming out of bondage. I felt like I was just, like this just was being lifted off of me. And I didn’t have to live in that anymore. And I didn’t have to feel ashamed. I just felt very thankful that I served a God that was so great and was so merciful.
Aaron Smith (36:18.551)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (36:37.474)
and was giving me this chance that I was so undeserving of, right? But he was willing to give me another chance to live for him and to walk back into his will.
Aaron Smith (36:51.215)
And that is the truth, if any of you listening are struggling with feeling unworthy. In reality, none of us are worthy. The forgiveness that was purchased on the cross by Christ and his blood was for every man, regardless of what sins we committed. We are sinful people. And so it really comes down to do we believe we’re forgiven? Do we believe that what he did on the cross was enough, even for abortion, even for
Aaron Smith (37:20.173)
drug addiction, for porn addiction, even for whatever sin you have in your past or in your present, his forgiveness is enough. His blood is enough. So I really appreciate that perspective.
Abby Johnson (37:32.796)
Well, it really just
Abby Johnson (37:33.596)
comes down to like, do you believe what he says? Do you take him at his word? Like, do you believe the word of God? He says it. So do you believe him or not? And I was like, I…
Aaron Smith (37:35.903)
Exactly, yeah. He said he forgives you. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (37:47.816)
I walked outside of God’s will for so long and didn’t take God at His word for so long. I was like, I don’t ever want to do that again. And so I just had to come to an understanding where I was like, okay, God, like, I believe you. And if I believe you, then I have to relent. And I have to just totally give this over to you.
Aaron Smith (38:02.105)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (38:10.591)
Amen. I want to get into, I love that we got into a lot of your background. It’s just what God’s doing in your life and has done in your life is just so awesome. And your story is also not unique. You’ve helped other people. That’s one of your ministries is get out of the Planned Parenthood cult and get into other jobs. I would imagine many of those people probably would have come into the Lord also. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (38:30.194)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (38:35.208)
Yes, yeah, that’s
Abby Johnson (38:36.288)
what we consider success. you know, just leaving your job at Planned Parenthood and going to get a job at like Walgreens that like we don’t consider that success. success for us is leaving your job in the abortion industry and coming into a saving relationship with Christ. So we have helped over 700 people do that.
Aaron Smith (38:43.256)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (38:52.737)
Amen.
Abby Johnson (38:59.432)
So we’ve helped over 700 people, nurses, doctors, medical assistants, directors, executives of the abortion industry leave their jobs in the abortion industry and come into a saving relationship with Christ. And it’s been just miraculous really.
Aaron Smith (39:17.431)
I love that. Will you just share the website and the name of that ministry right now so that anyone listening that’s like right now is like, I want to be a part of that. I want to support that. I want to know what that is.
Abby Johnson (39:21.937)
Yeah
Abby Johnson (39:26.34)
Yeah, so it’s called And Then There Were None and the website is abortionworker.com.
Aaron Smith (39:34.795)
worker.com. We’ll put that in the show notes as well. That’s a very worthy thing to support. But let’s talk about your newest book. So you wrote a book a while ago called Unplanned. It’s what the movie was based on back in 2018. What’s this newest book and what’s different about it than books you’ve written in the past?
Abby Johnson (39:43.176)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (39:46.311)
did, yeah.
Abby Johnson (39:52.738)
Yeah, so I’ve written several books, adult books, and that’s been, you know, fun. A lot of those have been kind of like healing for me, I guess, you know, just kind of getting my testimony out and things like that. But I was on a plane. Well, I was boarding a plane actually one day about a year ago, and I saw that there was a book coming out on explaining
Abby Johnson (40:22.682)
the beauty of abortion to kids. And I was so angered by that. Yeah, yeah, that we were selling that to children. And I was like, you know what? We have to fight against that. Like we’ve got to start telling, talking about the beauty of life in the womb.
Aaron Smith (40:25.389)
Yuck.
Aaron Smith (40:32.021)
It’s making me angry thinking that isn’t even a book.
Abby Johnson (40:47.336)
and just the value of life, right? I think so many people choose abortion because they don’t even see themselves as valuable. And so why would they see life in the womb as valuable if they don’t even see themselves as valuable, right? And so I was like, we’ve got to start talking about the value of life in the womb. Like, we’ve got to start really just creating like a battleground there, like just teaching our kids. I am a prolific children’s book reader.
Aaron Smith (40:58.115)
Yeah. Yep.
Aaron Smith (41:17.551)
You have eight children. You’ve been doing it for a while.
Abby Johnson (41:17.672)
as a mom of eight and we have quite
Abby Johnson (41:21.634)
a library of children’s books. And so I thought, you know what, I am going to write a book that is geared toward, you know, a fun book that is geared toward life in the womb. And I didn’t want to write something that was like cheesy. There’s a lot of like cheesy Christian books out there, but I wanted to write something that was good and fun and something that my kids would like to read.
Abby Johnson (41:43.848)
Little little ones would like to read and so just on that plane. I just pumped out a book a kids book Right there on the plane and like an hour and a half flight Yeah, I just sat down in my computer and just started typing and in my fury I just started typing and by the time I landed I had a book Completed children’s book completed. So it’s called what’s in mommy’s tummy and It’s a fun
Aaron Smith (41:51.087)
You did it right there on the plane. How long was the flight? Hour and a half?
Abby Johnson (42:13.256)
a little book really geared for younger kids, just talking about the beauty of life in a funny way. And it’s about a little boy named Luke trying to figure out what’s growing inside of his mom’s tummy. And I have a son named Luke, so I’m contracted for several more books to focus on the family. So I guess I have to go through all of my kids. I guess I have to do at least eight so I can, yeah.
Aaron Smith (42:40.675)
Dude, you gotta memorialize them in books.
Abby Johnson (42:44.359)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (42:44.36)
My wife and I did, not just, we worked on two children’s books for a few years and our kids are the, or the pictures in the book is our children, so I get it. You gotta do it.
Abby Johnson (42:54.064)
Yeah, that’s what I’m going to have to do. So now I’ve got to have at
Abby Johnson (42:56.422)
least eight, one for each kid. So yeah.
Aaron Smith (42:59.264)
Can you give so it was the book inspired by your Luke?
Abby Johnson (43:04.37)
So yeah, I wanted to write, my son Luke was, he’s a very inquisitive little boy. I was pregnant with my twins when my son Luke was young. And he was very interested in the fact that I had two babies growing in my tummy at the same time and was, yeah, very interested in that.
Aaron Smith (43:30.115)
That is very interesting.
Abby Johnson (43:33.288)
So some of the, was just kind of funny, kind of like reliving some of that with him as I was writing the book. And so yeah, so I just kind of, you know, wrote that and thought this will be fun for parents to read with their kids. And I think, you know, addressing kids like through funny stories, one of my kids’ very, very favorite books is like a kind of a silly book, but it’s called
Abby Johnson (44:02.272)
I love you stinky face. And, okay. Yeah. So my kids, we read it until like it came apart and we had to buy another one and it’s just a silly book. I was like, kids like funny, silly books, right? And, they like, you know, they like things they can laugh at. And so
Aaron Smith (44:04.495)
Never heard of that book. I’m get that one. Let’s see. I’m looking it up as you talk.
Abby Johnson (44:28.656)
I wanted to create something that would just make them laugh and they would think was kind of silly. And so part of the book is, is of course talking about life and life in the womb and what’s going on inside of mom’s belly. But some of it is just kind of funny and silly and kids will laugh at and they’ll want to read it over and over again. So that was, that was kind of the point of doing it.
Aaron Smith (44:38.199)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (44:50.063)
Yeah, something that I was loving about it is he’s seems like he’s asking questions about what is in there. Is it is it a dragon? Is it? Yeah, kids do love funny stories. Our kids are the exact same. They what’s funny, though, is Mike with my kids. I’ll try and read a children’s book to them and I’ll try and do funny voices or I’ll try and sing the book like like I’ll rap it or I’ll sing it to a beat. And they always look at me and they say, stop, dad. I’m like, what? Like what?
Abby Johnson (44:57.456)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (45:19.151)
Try to have fun with this here. You got too far. But they do love children’s books. And so when does this book come out? comes out in January, I believe, right?
Abby Johnson (45:19.176)
They’re like, you’ve gone too far. It’s too far. It’s too much. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (45:28.84)
Yeah,
Abby Johnson (45:29.861)
January. Yeah, the beginning of January. So Sanctity of Human Life Month. So we’ll be putting it out then and very excited. my first children’s book and hopefully first of many. I did throw in a little bit at the end just about how women are the only people that could have babies and
Aaron Smith (45:34.894)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (45:56.173)
You don’t have to be
Aaron Smith (45:56.655)
careful on my show. You could say it.
Abby Johnson (45:57.768)
Yeah,
Abby Johnson (46:00.392)
that dads have a specific role and moms have a specific role and dads are there to protect moms and babies. And so I did throw a little bit of that in there toward the end.
Aaron Smith (46:15.375)
You have to say it because there’s going to be someone that’s going to put out what’s in daddy’s tummy. So that this is the world we live in. We got to be speaking the truth in love. But there’s a lot of parents out there. There’s like I was saying, you don’t have to be careful on my show. These are all all Christians and we’re all adults. But there’s a lot of people that don’t know how to have these conversations. The world has made it so scary.
Abby Johnson (46:21.082)
I know, right? I know.
Abby Johnson (46:28.402)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (46:43.769)
Like, if we talk, if we share, if we say this, we’re going to be, you know, canceled. We’re going to be attacked. We’re going to be… But you know what? We just got to get over that. We got to remember that what the Bible says is what is truth.
Abby Johnson (46:55.322)
Yeah, I mean,
Abby Johnson (46:56.102)
here’s the thing, and this is what I tell people all the time, like, the other side, they are never worried about offending you. Never. I was never worried about offending anyone when I worked at Planned Parenthood. In fact, I reveled in a conservative’s offense. I loved it if I was able to offend a Christian or offend a conservative.
Aaron Smith (47:02.702)
Never.
Aaron Smith (47:09.295)
Hmm.
Aaron Smith (47:13.793)
Yeah, getting someone all riled up.
Aaron Smith (47:20.238)
Mm.
Abby Johnson (47:20.672)
or offend some like Bible thumper, right? Like they revel in our offense. So, but yeah, we are so worried about offending them, but we’re offending them with truth.
Aaron Smith (47:25.348)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (47:32.033)
Yeah,
Aaron Smith (47:33.183)
I was going to say there’s a big difference in offending someone for the sake of offense and speaking truth and someone being offended by it. It’s a big difference.
Abby Johnson (47:40.201)
And people
Abby Johnson (47:41.062)
who are averse to truth will always be offended by it. But that doesn’t mean you stop speaking it.
Aaron Smith (47:49.135)
Now the Bible says it this way, that the gospel is a stench of death to those who do not believe it. But it’s a stench of life. It’s a fragrance of life to those who believe it. So the truth, yeah, to those who want nothing to do with the truth, it’s going to smell like death to them always. But we should, as believers, we need to become more bold. Not in the sense of, I want to offend someone.
Abby Johnson (47:54.759)
Yes.
Abby Johnson (47:57.692)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (48:17.645)
in the sense of I love people enough to say the truth. I love my children enough to tell them the truth in love that, hey, there’s God made male and female, boy and girl. You’re a boy and that’s good. You’re a girl and that’s good and beautiful. that’s our job. We can’t not have that as our job. What do you hope comes?
Abby Johnson (48:38.312)
And this is our job.
Aaron Smith (48:45.035)
out of this children’s book. What do you hope to see in families who get this book, which by the way the Arden is very very beautiful. So that’s awesome. But what do you hope to see?
Abby Johnson (48:58.778)
I hope that parents get it. I hope they read it to their kids. I hope that they are able to laugh with their kids, speak some truth to their kids. And I hope it just opens up an opportunity because it is meant for younger, a younger audience. And so I hope it just opens up a conversation about life and the value of life and the sanctity of human life and that that continues to just draw out more more conversations.
Aaron Smith (49:21.069)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (49:26.79)
You know, I’ve never had to sit down with my kids and tell them abortion is wrong. I’ve never had to sit down with my kids and be like, okay, now we’re pro-life, right? Like, don’t forget, we’re pro-life and we’re against abortion. I’ve never had to do that. Yeah, I’ve never had to do that. I’ve never had to be like, now guys, don’t forget, like, abortion is wrong. They just know it. They know it instinctively because we have…
Aaron Smith (49:38.083)
Yeah, here’s our political stance.
Abby Johnson (49:50.938)
taught them that life begins at conception. They have seen ultrasounds. They’ve seen ultrasounds of their siblings. They look at a pregnant woman and they know immediately that what is inside of her belly is beautiful and sacred and should be protected. And so anytime that abortion is even talked about, they know abortion is killing a baby. And so anytime abortion is even talked about, my kids are like horrified, right? They’re like, my gosh, like.
Aaron Smith (49:57.357)
Yep.
Abby Johnson (50:19.772)
Who could do that? Right? I mean, they’re just like, because it’s so black and white to them. Right? And that’s how it should be for us. Abortion is murder. It’s murdering a baby. It should be very black and white. And at one point in time, it was black and white to all of us. At one point in time, all of us, if we would have heard…
Aaron Smith (50:21.252)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (50:25.261)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (50:37.337)
for very short period.
Abby Johnson (50:43.186)
There is a procedure out there called abortion and abortion kills a baby, an innocent child. What do you think about it? At some point in time, every single child in America would have said, that’s wrong. It’s not until sin really enters in and we’re given justifications for sin that we start to see like gray area in sin. But that’s not really how sin is supposed to be. Sin is supposed to be very black and white, right? It’s right and wrong. That’s it.
Aaron Smith (50:53.934)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (51:00.376)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (51:11.88)
And abortion is wrong. It is, it’s an absolute truth that abortion is wrong. That’s it. It’s black and white. And that’s what we need to teach our kids. That’s how our kids need to see life and death. That’s how they need to see murder. Murder is wrong all the time, every time. Abortion is murder. Therefore, abortion is wrong. And that’s how they need to see it. But we’ve got to start having these conversations earlier and earlier, but not even about abortion, but just about life.
Aaron Smith (51:16.793)
Black and white.
Aaron Smith (51:33.508)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (51:40.912)
in general and that life in the womb is beautiful and it’s ordained by God and that God knew us before he even created us, that he had a purpose and a plan for us. Yes.
Aaron Smith (51:49.773)
Yeah, knows the hairs on our heads. know,
Aaron Smith (51:52.914)
he knows he has his thought for us. His thoughts for us are countless. It’s I think a big reason why Christians have had such a hard time in this realm is we like, as we stated earlier, we’ve handed off too much spiritual authority, too much parenting to third parties saying, hey, I don’t feel equipped.
Aaron Smith (52:18.607)
Therefore, I’m going let other people, I’m going to trust other people to handle the parenting of my children. They may not have ever said that verbally, but by actions and by the conclusions of their life, that’s what it is. But think a big part of it is going back to something else we talked about is there’s a big gap between understanding what God has said and believing what he has said. And so…
Aaron Smith (52:46.571)
you like we’re talking about with abortion, like this black and white. Well, the reason it feels so gray is because I don’t actually know. I don’t know. I don’t know where I can draw the line. Like, what about this and what about this? Rather than going to the Word of God and starting from there and trusting and saying, well, God loves life. He’s not a God of death. He loves children. We see that in Jesus specifically saying, let the children come unto me. Do not hinder the little ones.
Aaron Smith (53:15.955)
And so he’s got a very strong stance on life, on children, and on babies. There was laws in the Old Testament to protect babies in the womb. It’s incredible to see. So I think there needs to be more confidence in believers of knowing that what the Word of God says is the truest truth. And we can stand on it and we need to believe it. That way we don’t feel like we’re walking in these gray areas and not really not sure what we can stand on and what’s true.
Aaron Smith (53:44.943)
You were going say something.
Abby Johnson (53:45.212)
I
Abby Johnson (53:45.993)
know it’s like time to wrap up, just one controversial thing. I’m just going to go and throw it out there. I think one huge problem also in the church and one of the reasons that this has become such a gray area in the Christian church is because there has been such a feminization of the church. we have just a whole, I mean, look, I mean, you just look at the country, you see,
Aaron Smith (53:52.281)
Do it.
Aaron Smith (54:05.121)
Amen. Not in a good way, but yes, I agree.
Abby Johnson (54:15.004)
The higher voter turnout of women, the more liberal our votes are. So naturally, the more females we have as pastors, the more females we have teaching from the pulpit, the more feminized our churches, the more liberal our churches are going to be. And as a mom of five boys, I don’t want female pastors teaching my boys. I want men.
Aaron Smith (54:17.977)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (54:43.784)
teaching my sons how to be men. I don’t want women standing up at a pulpit teaching my sons how to be men. And I think that that’s entirely scriptural. I think it’s entirely biblical. But I think that the feminization of the church, the Christian church, is a huge problem. And you do not see that in other faith traditions. You do not see that in the Muslim world.
Abby Johnson (55:12.328)
You do not see that in the Hindu world. You don’t see that. You don’t see women taking the lead of these other churches. But you do see that in the Christian church. And what is happening in the Christian church? We’re losing our people. Meanwhile, these other churches are growing. They’re booming. Their membership is increasing. What’s happening to the Christian church? We’re losing our members. Why? Because we don’t have proper leadership in the church.
Aaron Smith (55:18.265)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (55:30.115)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (55:41.956)
We don’t have people standing up the pulpit and properly leading their flock. And I think it’s a true shame because we need male headship. We need it in our homes and we need it in our churches. And I’m saying this as a woman who is a public speaker who does at times speak in churches, but I’m never going to ask to pastor a church.
Aaron Smith (56:11.288)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (56:12.168)
And I think that is a role for men and I think it’s a role for men only. But I think that, and this is a huge, you know, this is a huge debate even in the Southern Baptist Convention right now. This is a huge debate. I think it’s a, I don’t even think it’s a debate that should be had. I think it’s a debate that should be closed and I think it should be a completely, like, it should be shut down because I think there’s only one side that’s biblical. But I think that that’s one of the reasons that we’re losing people in the church because we do not have proper headship.
Abby Johnson (56:42.256)
And I’m not even sure that people understand what spiritual authority is anymore. I don’t really think that they understand what, I don’t think they really understand what spiritual authority is in a home. We have so many homes that are lopsided. have, you know, husbands and wives not agreeing in the home on how to raise children, on how to vote, on politics, their split, their, you know,
Aaron Smith (56:47.821)
No, I don’t think they do.
Aaron Smith (57:06.873)
diet
Aaron Smith (57:07.835)
and everything.
Abby Johnson (57:08.144)
women taking
Abby Johnson (57:08.994)
their children to church and the fathers are not going. I mean, just all different. mean, one of the reasons our culture is so screwed up is because fathers are failing to take spiritual headship of the home. And so I think that’s another big issue. But I think that our churches are failing because we are allowing too many women to take over that pastoral role.
Aaron Smith (57:12.291)
Yep.
Abby Johnson (57:36.802)
and we need men to really step up and lead in all areas of our lives.
Aaron Smith (57:42.637)
And I would add, I think that not just men leading, but we men, godly, integritous men leading our churches, who are unashamed of the gospel, who have integrity and honor and know how to be men. That’s a big thing we’ve been missing. I mean, it’s just a continuation of the curse from the garden, you know, that Eve
Abby Johnson (57:47.75)
Yes, yes.
Abby Johnson (57:51.386)
Yes. Yes.
Abby Johnson (57:59.538)
Yes. Know how to be men, right?
Aaron Smith (58:12.651)
would want to usurp, that’s a word, her husband that would want to desire his position and men are going to want to desire to give it up. And this is something that when we don’t walk in the Spirit of God, because Christ, when He died on the cross and was resurrected, when we believe in Him, He breaks the curse. So it’s not that we get to say like, we’re still under the curse. No, it says that He came and He broke the curse. He was the one that was accursed for us. And so the problem is, is when we don’t walk in the Spirit of God,
Abby Johnson (58:22.578)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (58:42.329)
then the natural position of our flesh is going to be that the woman’s going to want to step up and replace that leadership. The husband’s going to want to sit back and say, okay, you can have it. That’s fine. And that’s the opposite of what the Holy Spirit’s desiring. He wants men to be men. He wants men to stand up and raise holy hands in prayer, in supplications, in protection, in teaching, in exhortation, in rebuke, all these things in a powerful way. And you see this
Abby Johnson (58:59.122)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (59:10.479)
throughout the Old Testament when a king was righteous, it was good. The Asherah poles were taken down. The temples of the other gods were destroyed. There was wealth in the land. was peace in the land. There was no more war in the land. And then you have another king come up and he’s just faithless and he’s a adulterer and he’s not following the ways of the Lord. Yeah, so I agree. I think we need more godly men. Not just men.
Aaron Smith (59:39.245)
not boys for sure. We need more godly men to step up and for all my listeners, they might be thinking about their own pastor or someone else in their life and I’m gonna say it’s us. It starts on our hopes. Like my children, I hope that whatever church they go to in the future, they’re gonna look and say, how does this line up with what I’ve seen in my dad and in their marriage and in their life? I want them to experience that and know that so.
Abby Johnson (59:40.53)
Yeah, no.
Abby Johnson (01:00:03.976)
Well, and people may be offended by what I said, but I’m telling you right now, like I’ve lived this. I emasculated my husband for years by taking over the leadership role in our home. Because secular feminism tells women that they are to lead the home, that they are to wear the pants, that their husbands are to shut up. And that’s exactly what I did. And I usurped his authority.
Abby Johnson (01:00:33.2)
in our home and told him to sit back and I was going to handle everything and he did. And because that’s sinful nature, right? And so he did. our house, I mean, we, I’m telling you like, it’s truly a miracle of God that we’re still married today. But it was, you when I left Planned Parenthood, I had to learn how to be a wife.
Aaron Smith (01:00:41.859)
Yeah, it’s easier.
Abby Johnson (01:01:00.632)
I had to learn how to allow my husband to lead our family and to lead our home and he had to learn how to take over that spiritual authority of our home. But our home has become such a place of peace because we are living under God’s authority. And so I’m saying this as a woman who has not done the right thing for many years.
Abby Johnson (01:01:29.178)
and who has seen her entire family turn around when you actually do put your home under the correct authority and give your husband the authority that he should have, that God has ordained him to have. I’ve lived it. I’ve lived it both ways and I know what it looks like to do it the right way.
Aaron Smith (01:01:48.611)
When you began to walk that out in your own life, did you begin to see your husband rise up?
Abby Johnson (01:01:55.868)
yeah, yeah. mean, was like, suddenly I was like, dang, like I’m the worst. Like I’ve been keeping this from him for so many years, you know? And he’s just been waiting on this. But it was a struggle actually. When I left Planned Parenthood, that was actually probably the hardest time in our marriage because we were having to learn like how to be biblically married, like how to…
Aaron Smith (01:02:19.421)
yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:02:25.192)
be under God’s authority. That was probably the hardest time.
Aaron Smith (01:02:28.631)
You got… Did
Aaron Smith (01:02:30.195)
you get saved right around the same season? Or were you saved prior to this? Gotcha.
Abby Johnson (01:02:34.856)
So we like came back to the church like we basically came
Abby Johnson (01:02:38.727)
back, know to our faith well I did like I came back into my faith and like came back into the church and everything and so I was like having this like kind of reawakening and trying to like heal from all this stuff and and I’m like, you know, it was just like a huge time of like healing and then we’re trying to heal in our marriage and all the terrible things I had done and said to Doug and
Aaron Smith (01:02:50.989)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:03:02.329)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:03:02.48)
You
Abby Johnson (01:03:02.64)
know, and so it was just like this big time of healing. I’d not been a good mother to, you know, to Grace, to my oldest daughter, like, and so it was just like this huge time of like breaking everything down and just like brokenness and then rebuilding it, you know, under God and what he wanted for us. But that was the hardest time actually. The hardest time of our marriage was not when I worked at Planned Pair and even though people think like that was probably hard. It was hard. That was a hard time.
Abby Johnson (01:03:31.752)
because we were not equally yoked, we were in two completely different camps. But that was where Satan wanted me. So I didn’t feel like I was on, I didn’t have a lot of conflict, right? Because I was just following Satan. So I didn’t feel like I had a lot of conflict or internal struggle. It wasn’t until I stepped away from the enemy and was trying to line up under the Lord that then it was like, like everything started flying at me.
Aaron Smith (01:03:36.983)
No, but you were right where Satan wanted you. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:03:43.342)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:03:57.028)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:04:00.811)
Abby, would you and would you think Doug would ever want to come on with you? A future episode? think I think it’d be awesome to have a conversation just about that season and what that looked like because.
Abby Johnson (01:04:04.656)
Yeah, he would. Yeah, totally.
Abby Johnson (01:04:09.372)
Yeah, he
Abby Johnson (01:04:10.242)
would talk to you, Doug, and you know, we had, he would be interesting for you to interview because it was like, even when I was talking about like how I wasn’t prioritizing them correctly, you know, and everything, like my inattention to them actually kind of led him into a pattern of drinking and alcoholism. And so like, I kind of had to take responsibility for that. Like that I…
Aaron Smith (01:04:24.11)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (01:04:34.18)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:04:37.798)
was, you I left him home with all the kids all the time while I was out like trying to save all the babies, you know, and I was not taking care of my home. I was not taking care of my children and my marriage and all of this. And so, you know, then suddenly the kids go to bed and he’s like drinking, you know, a bottle of whiskey to try to cope, you know, with me being gone and all the kids and right. It started out like innocent and all of sudden he’s drinking a whole bottle every night. And so
Aaron Smith (01:04:43.876)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:04:59.117)
Yeah, probably starting out to relax, but turned into more.
Abby Johnson (01:05:07.58)
you know, then there’s like a pattern of addiction. And so, you know, we had to walk through that together, like him, and now he’s been sober for over three years, but it’s, yeah, but like even that, and so people were like, my gosh, that’s so hard. Like, you know, for him to be dealing with that. And I’m like, honestly, it was such an honor to be able to walk with him through that hard time because he has walked with me through all of these years, like.
Aaron Smith (01:05:16.479)
praise God. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:05:32.078)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (01:05:33.818)
all of this struggle, I mean, I’ve been like the worst version of myself with him and he’s stuck with me. And so to be able to just do something like a little hard with him was really such an honor to go through that with him and to be able to hold his hands up during that time because he’s been that person for me so many times.
Aaron Smith (01:05:50.243)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:05:56.023)
I love that. I absolutely would love to have you and Doug on again in the future to talk about that. So, hey, Abby, I really appreciate you coming on. I think what God’s done in your life and is doing through you now is so amazing. And you’ve said a couple of things about yourself, like, you know, you were the worst. I love that you have a sober understanding, sober view of yourself over the past. But I just want you to know that that God is absolutely used and is using you and in mighty ways.
Abby Johnson (01:05:58.738)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:06:23.688)
That’s the prayer. That’s
Aaron Smith (01:06:24.811)
Yeah, and it’s
Abby Johnson (01:06:25.056)
the prayer.
Aaron Smith (01:06:25.451)
just a good thing. Again, it doesn’t change the past, but it just shows the goodness of God that He works all things together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes, and that is you. So thank you. Real quick, would you just share where people can find you? Because I think people should absolutely follow you, should absolutely get your new children’s book, which is so beautiful and has a beautiful message as well. Yeah, where can they find you?
Abby Johnson (01:06:46.022)
Yeah, thanks. Thank you.
Abby Johnson (01:06:50.175)
Yeah, so my website is just abbyj.com. You can find all my books there, my podcast, the movie, both my ministries, like everything that I do is kind of housed there at abbyj.com and all my like social media and everything like that.
Aaron Smith (01:07:01.857)
Awesome.
Aaron Smith (01:07:10.851)
beautiful abbyj.com I’ll put all these in the show notes also. Abby thank you so much for being on the show I really appreciate it.
Abby Johnson (01:07:17.256)
Abby Johnson (01:07:18.895)
Thank for having me.
Continue reading...
Abby Johnson’s journey from working in the abortion industry to becoming a pro-life advocate is a powerful testament to God’s truth and redemption. Once a director at Planned Parenthood, she now dedicates her life to speaking out against the deception she once believed.
Abby was raised in a Christian home, but abortion was never discussed. Her parents assumed the church would address difficult topics, while the church assumed parents were handling these conversations at home. As a result, she entered college naive and uninformed.
When she met a woman from Planned Parenthood who convinced her they were helping women in need, it resonated with her. Wanting to serve others, she got involved, unaware of the deception she was stepping into. Over time, her heart hardened, and she even had two abortions herself, justifying them as necessary, and living in blindness to the truth. Proverbs 14:12 says, ‘There is a way that appears to be right, but in the end, it leads to death.’ This was Abby’s path until God intervened.
As Abby climbed the ranks at Planned Parenthood, she eventually became a clinic director. But then, one moment changed everything. She was asked to assist with an ultrasound-guided abortion. What she saw was a 13-week-old baby fighting for his life against the abortion instruments. Psalm 139:13-14 tells us that God knits us together in our mother’s womb, and we are fearfully and wonderfully made. At that moment, Abby realized the truth-this was a human life.
The reality shattered every lie she had believed. She walked away from Planned Parenthood, terrified but certain that she could no longer be a part of it. Many women who have had abortions struggle with feelings of guilt and unworthiness. Abby was no exception. The enemy whispered that her sins were too great for forgiveness. But Isaiah 1:18 says, ‘Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow.’ Christ’s sacrifice covers even the deepest of sins. When Abby truly accepted His forgiveness, she felt the weight lift off of her. She no longer lived in shame, but in the freedom of God’s grace.
Abby is now a mother, and raising her children with a strong pro-life foundation is very important to her. Her children have never had to be explicitly told that abortion is wrong—they simply understand that life is sacred. Abby shows her children ultrasounds, teaches them that every child is a blessing (Psalm 127:3), and affirms that they are fearfully and wonderfully made by God. She believes it is the responsibility of parents, not schools, the government, or even the church, to instill these values in their children. If parents don’t teach them the truth, the world will teach them lies.
The world if often offended by the truth regarding abortion and the gospel itself is offensive to those who reject it, but that doesn’t mean we should stay silent. 2 Corinthians 2:15-16 reminds us that truth will offend those who do not believe. But if we love people, we must tell them the truth.
For those who have had an abortion, there is healing in Jesus. Choosing life is not just about the unborn—it’s about choosing life for yourself as well. Abby encourages those facing an unplanned pregnancy to seek out ministries that offer real support and healing. No one is alone in this battle. God has a plan, even in the most difficult circumstances.
“I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.” – Deuteronomy 30:19
READ TRANSCRIPT
Aaron Smith (01:41.569)
Everyone welcome back to another episode of the Marriage After God Podcast. Sitting here with Abby Johnson. Abby, welcome to the show.
Abby Johnson (01:47.08)
Thank you, thanks for having me.
Aaron Smith (01:48.943)
You have made a name for yourself. My wife and I saw the movie Unplanned. When did that come out? A few years ago? The long?
Abby Johnson (01:57.202)
came out in
Abby Johnson (01:57.828)
March of 2019.
Aaron Smith (02:00.367)
2019, okay, quite a few years ago actually. But it was very impactful for me. I have a hard time watching movies like that because I get really emotional movies and hard movies about those types of topics are very hard for me. But it is so necessary. The conversation that you’ve been having with the world and it’s the conversation that the church should have been having for a long time. And we’re just now we the role we stepping into it more because it’s so necessary.
Aaron Smith (02:29.007)
But why don’t we start off with, because I don’t know if my audience knows you very well, why don’t we start off with some of the biographical stuff. Who are you? What’s a little bit of your background? And maybe you can share a bit of your testimony of where you were, because you used to work at Planned Parenthood, and now you are as pro-life as it gets, you’re as Jesus-loving as it gets, and your job is the exact opposite.
Abby Johnson (02:40.232)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (02:50.066)
Yeah, yeah. So I’m a 44 year old mother of eight. I’ve been married to my husband for 19 years and used to work at Planned Parenthood. I left Planned Parenthood 15 years ago. I cannot believe it’s been that long. Started working there in 2001.
Abby Johnson (03:18.158)
I was in college. am a proud Texas Aggie. went to school there, was a dumb college kid, didn’t, you know, thought I knew everything. Grew up in a conservative Christian home, did not talk about abortion in my house. think, you know, I’m an only child. My parents were just kind of like, you know,
Abby Johnson (03:47.366)
We’ve raised Abby in the church. Certainly they’re talking about all the hard things in youth group. And the church was like, certainly the parents are talking about all the hard things at home. And so that resulted in nobody talking about any of the hard things. And so when I went to college, I was very naive and sheltered and just really ignorant, just like in the pure sense of the word about any worldly.
Aaron Smith (03:54.041)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (04:17.116)
things. And so, met a woman with Planned Parenthood. She told me about the organization, how amazing it is, how wonderful it is, how they’re there to help women. And, you know, don’t you want to help women? Don’t you want to help poor women? You know, of course you do. If you don’t, you’re just like a bigot. And so I was like, yeah, of course, you know, and started talking about feminism. I didn’t know what that was.
Aaron Smith (04:17.838)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (04:37.647)
Hmm.
Abby Johnson (04:44.092)
but it sounded like something my parents would hate. So I was like, yeah, I want to do that, you know? And got involved and that was kind of it. I mean, once I was in, know, Satan got a hold of me. The enemy got a hold of my heart and my mind and my behaviors. And I ended up going on to have two abortions myself. I murdered two of my own children just through selfishness.
Abby Johnson (05:13.94)
and just sinfulness. And I went on to have a failed marriage. The guy that I got pregnant with, I ended up marrying him, super common. Our marriage failed, of course. And then continued to work at Planned Parenthood, ended up meeting my current husband.
Abby Johnson (05:43.408)
while I was working at Planned Parenthood, he was pro-life. He was always pro-life throughout our relationship and our marriage made dinner conversations a little tense. But I would say Doug and I were very unequally yoked, I would say. But he just kept…
Aaron Smith (05:58.063)
Hmm.
Abby Johnson (06:12.232)
praying for me, you know, and he just prayed and prayed. My parents were praying and praying. you know, I tell people this all the time. I think, you know, the Bible talks about, you know, the Lord will set before us life and death. And, you know, we are to choose life. And in those circumstances, and during my time at Planned Parenthood, I feel like the Lord was constantly putting in front of me life and death. And, you know, it’s not, I mean, it’s…
Abby Johnson (06:40.85)
The Bible says life and death, but it’s like good and evil, right? Wickedness and righteousness, right? The Lord and Satan. Like what are you choosing in those instances, right? Like when sin is put in front of you, like what are you choosing? And those opportunities were put in front of me all the time in Planned Parenthood. And I mean, in everyday life, right? mean, sin is put in front of us and what do you choose, right? And I think every time…
Aaron Smith (06:44.207)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (07:08.71)
We’re in those situations and we choose sin. We choose the enemy over God. We choose wickedness over righteousness, over holiness. There’s a hardness that falls over our heart. There’s a callousness that forms. And that hardness, that callousness, it almost creates a separation. There’s a wall that goes up between us and God and we don’t hear Him.
Aaron Smith (07:20.239)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (07:37.5)
You know, we don’t feel him, we don’t sense him, we don’t want to be in relationship with him. We want to be separated from him. And that’s really what happened to me for eight years. I mean, I grew up knowing better. I grew up a believer. I knew better, right? I knew what I was doing was sinful. And I’m gonna tell you how I knew it was sinful because the day that I signed up to be a part of Planned Parenthood, I did not go home and tell my parents.
Aaron Smith (07:39.309)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (07:54.436)
Mm
Aaron Smith (08:06.095)
You weren’t excited about it, you weren’t proud about it.
Abby Johnson (08:07.056)
And I tell kids all the time, no, and I tell kids all the
Abby Johnson (08:11.5)
time, if you grew up with Bible believing, God fearing parents, never trust a decision that you would not tell them about. I didn’t tell my parents, I didn’t tell my parents I was working in Planned Parenthood for a year and a half. I kept a secret from them. And I didn’t tell them I had abortions. I didn’t tell them when I was going to a pride parade.
Aaron Smith (08:22.297)
That’s a good bit of advice.
Abby Johnson (08:35.942)
right, to support Plain Parenthood. I didn’t tell them all of these like things I was participating in that was wicked, that were wicked. Because I knew I didn’t want my parents to be disappointed. And why would they be disappointed, right?
Aaron Smith (08:37.23)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (08:48.057)
So I got a quick
Aaron Smith (08:50.119)
question for you. Was the conviction you were feeling, was it you just knew that they weren’t going to agree with it and so you were avoiding it or you’ve also felt a conviction of like, I shouldn’t be doing this and they’re gonna not like that either.
Abby Johnson (09:05.128)
think it was a little bit of both. I think I didn’t want to hear the lecture, right? I think that was part of it. I think there was almost like a part of it. I think there was almost like an embarrassment. Like I didn’t want to have to justify what I was doing to my parents and to my family. Like I didn’t want my grandma to know that I was like working in an abortion clinic. I didn’t want my family to know what I was doing. I think there was like a sense of embarrassment.
Aaron Smith (09:18.543)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (09:29.07)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (09:33.062)
there, like what I was doing, but like, why would I be embarrassed, right? If I’m doing the right thing. So there was always that struggle going on inside of me for a while. I mean, eventually it got to a point where I was like, I don’t care, right? Like I’m, I don’t care. You know, the hardness takes over and like, you don’t care. You don’t feel like you have to justify it anymore. But yeah, that was me for eight years. I was, I was in that world for eight years.
Aaron Smith (09:37.314)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (09:46.949)
yeah, that hardness.
Abby Johnson (09:59.708)
The last year I was there, you I eventually become the director. I eventually like take over and I’m kind of running things. And that last year, things kind of were changing for me. I was starting to see things for what they really were. And I remember thinking, okay, is it that everything is changing or is it that now I’m just so high up on the ladder?
Aaron Smith (10:26.637)
You’re seeing things.
Abby Johnson (10:26.938)
in the abortion world that
Abby Johnson (10:28.208)
I’m finally seeing it for what it’s been all along. And I realized now it was the latter, right? It wasn’t that things were changing. Like this is who we had been all along. We were all about abortion all the time. But I was just now finally seeing it. And so I finally ended up leaving after witnessing a live ultrasound guided abortion procedure where I saw a 13 week old baby fight and struggle for his life against the abortion instruments.
Aaron Smith (10:31.438)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (10:37.412)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (10:52.558)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (10:55.426)
And that’s what caused me to leave. I think it was like seeing that the humanity of this child, that we had the same humanity. We had equal humanity. We were the same. We were just different sizes in different places. But that same instinct to fight for his life was the same instinct that I would have. You know, seeing that child’s heartbeat and seeing the, you know, his heartbeat getting faster.
Aaron Smith (11:04.654)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (11:17.039)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (11:24.422)
because he was afraid, because he was feeling pain. That’s the same type of humanity that I have. That’s the same feeling that I would have, right? And I just thought, my gosh, like just this reality came over me in a way that I had not felt before. And my eyes were open that day. It was really like a kind of a Damascus moment for me. And I ended up leaving. Totally, yeah.
Aaron Smith (11:35.054)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (11:49.081)
God was ripping that veil away, making it
Aaron Smith (11:52.752)
totally transparent so you can know exactly what’s going on. There’s a, sorry, good.
Abby Johnson (11:55.75)
Yep. Yeah. And I ended up leaving and that was kind of it.
Abby Johnson (11:59.793)
That’s kind of like the rest of the story. Like Planned Parenthood sued me to keep me quiet. They tried to get a gag order against me. That obviously failed. And I’ve been talking about it ever since.
Aaron Smith (12:05.933)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (12:14.029)
Well, there’s so much just packed in the initial, your just your initial testimony, separate from what you’ve been doing since then. There’s just so much going on. the ultrasound, you you’re experiencing the the abortion through the ultrasound being able to visibly see this baby. It’s something that’s very important. I just want all my listeners to recognize the power of these ultrasounds. There’s ministries out there that they go around showing ultrasounds to people so that they can see the baby because this
Abby Johnson (12:22.952)
Mm.
Aaron Smith (12:43.693)
this blindness that’s been the deception that’s been over the many people in this world right now about abortion is this idea of like, it’s not a real life. It’s not, you know, it’s less than life. It’s not, you know, a human yet, which is totally biologically and scientifically and biblically and every aspect wrong. But they’re deceived. They believe in this lie. And then many of these people when they see an ultrasound for the first time, it’s like their eyes are open. They’re like, I can’t.
Aaron Smith (13:10.603)
argue against that I can’t continue to walk in my deception. It’s a powerful ministry. if you in your town, if you have any ministries like that, give free ultrasounds like in our area and all over the country, there’s Pregnancy Resource Centers. It’s like the exact opposite of Planned Parenthood. They give actual free services and they help women and fathers. But anyways, that story is amazing. I want to take a step back. You talked about being raised in a Christian home.
Aaron Smith (13:37.487)
Is there anything, you know, looking back, know hindsight could, know, quote unquote be 2020 and it’s easy to look back and judge everything from where we’re currently at, but is there something now as a mother and, know, and your husband being a father that you look back and you, do you think there’s something your parents could have done if they were, you talked about the church not speaking about your parents not speaking about, is there something that they could have done to help protect against you falling into that deception?
Abby Johnson (14:06.79)
Yeah, so, you know, my parents and I have actually talked about this. Like, when I was growing up, I think that the common mantra was, well, if you get pregnant, you know, you’re not going to be able to bring that baby home to our house. you’re, you know, like that was kind of like what everybody grew up hearing. That was like what all, you know, me and my friends heard growing up. It was like, well, you know, we’re not raising that baby. Like, if you get pregnant, we’re not raising that baby. Like, you’re going to be on your own, you know, like that kind of…
Aaron Smith (14:20.247)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (14:31.107)
Yeah, very negative.
Abby Johnson (14:36.316)
which is not true. Like that’s not how my parents are at all. Like my parents are amazing and they would have helped me through it. But like, I did hear that from my mom. Like I did, my parents are married. Like they’ve been married for almost 50 years. But like I do remember hearing that from my mom. Like if girls would get pregnant in high school or something. I remember my mom, you know, she was the woman at that time. She’s a very different woman now. But at that time,
Aaron Smith (14:38.764)
It’s not.
Aaron Smith (14:45.273)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (15:06.781)
Abby Johnson (15:09.314)
she would be the one that was like, why are we having baby showers at church for the woman who’s, know, for the girl who got pregnant outside of marriage, right? It’s like we’re celebrating her sin. And so I kind of grew up hearing that as a young person, you know? And so when I got pregnant outside of marriage, I was like, gosh, like I can’t go tell my parents, you know, because they’re not gonna be accepting, they’re not.
Aaron Smith (15:16.157)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (15:20.749)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (15:38.352)
I need my dad was a deacon in the church. Like I was like, my gosh, this would be so embarrassing for them. This would be humiliating for them. Like for them to have to say like their daughter has gotten pregnant outside of marriage, you know. And now like my parents are like, gosh, we wish we would have done differently. Like we wish we would have done that differently. We wish we would have sat down and had a different conversation with you. And so, you know, the only thing that we can do now is like,
Aaron Smith (15:58.478)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (16:08.36)
do differently for our kids, right? So we have eight kids, my oldest daughter is 18, she has a boyfriend. They’re like amazing, they’re an amazing couple. They’re both very faithful. But, and I know that like they’re holding very strict physical boundaries, like my, you know, it’s kind of, I mean, I don’t know, it’s kind of my daughter’s responsibility. I always tell her, boys are the gas, girls are the brakes.
Aaron Smith (16:10.35)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (16:32.836)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (16:35.768)
So I tell her like you’re, you know, that’s kind of your responsibility to hold the physical boundary in the relationship. And she’s done a really good job of that. But, you know, we did like I sat down with both like her and Colby, her boyfriend one day and I was like, listen, we expect you got we know that your expectation is to, you know, to uphold that physical boundary to be God honoring. And we expect that.
Abby Johnson (17:05.234)
to be the case, but I also know that things can happen. And, you know, we know that there’s grace, right? And I was like, I always want, I want you to know, I want both of you to know that if you ever have that positive pregnancy test, you will never come to me and your dad with a positive pregnancy test and not be met with joy. There will never be a time.
Aaron Smith (17:15.469)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (17:33.102)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (17:35.048)
where you come to your mom and dad and you say, mom, I’m pregnant. It doesn’t matter if you’re 18, it doesn’t matter if you’re married, it doesn’t matter if you’re unmarried, doesn’t matter if you’re in the middle of college, it doesn’t matter if you’re in high school, it doesn’t matter when it is. A baby is always treated as a blessing in this home. A baby is always gonna be met with joy and happiness and delight. And your mom will always be happy to be a grandmother. It doesn’t matter what…
Aaron Smith (17:50.671)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (18:03.758)
what the situation is. And if it’s not a part of the plan that you made for yourself, we will walk with you in that different plan of life, in that different course of life. And so, like, I wanted them to know, just like, I wanted to have a different conversation with her, right, than that conversation that was had with me. That there’s never a time where she ever needs to feel scared when she has that positive pregnancy test, even if it’s…
Aaron Smith (18:11.225)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (18:22.499)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (18:32.22)
different than what she envisioned. Like I never want her to feel like she’s going to be unsupported by her family. I never want her to even have a glimmer of thought that she needs to darken the door of an abortion facility. That never even needs to be a consideration for any of my children. And the thing is, is that
Aaron Smith (18:39.983)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (18:49.027)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (18:57.864)
There’s a lot of pro-life kids that walk into abortion clinics. The majority of people having abortions are kids between the ages of 20 and 24 who are going to church. Those are the majority of kids. So if you really want to fight this battle, if you really want to fight the enemy on this, we’ve got to start talking to our kids very openly and honestly about it.
Aaron Smith (19:01.997)
Yep.
Abby Johnson (19:26.866)
We’ve got to start having these conversations and we have to start telling them that children are welcome in our home and that abortion never needs to be an option and that disappointment is never going to befall on our household because a baby is coming.
Aaron Smith (19:33.806)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (19:46.511)
What you’re talking about is, know, legislation is good. Like, politically fighting for laws and rules to mitigate against, you know, the death cult. This idea of children are a burden and need to be removed. That’s one thing. But that’s such a small portion of this conversation. It’s like, that’s like…
Aaron Smith (20:08.141)
We’re too far down the road. Now we need to figure out legislation. What you’re talking about is exactly what us as mothers and fathers, you all my listeners need to recognize is this conversation, where this is stemming from is the defacing of God’s image. starts with what is our definition of a child if the definition is like someone having sex out of wedlock. that…
Aaron Smith (20:36.173)
child is a consequence to your sin. That’s actually not true. The consequence to our sin is that being further from God, is feeling that distance, is the separation from God. The child is not a consequence. No, the Bible calls children blessings like what you’re just saying. So if we start in our homes, like we try and tell our kids all the time just the blessing that they are,
Abby Johnson (20:43.814)
Yeah, separation from God.
Aaron Smith (20:58.083)
that children are blessings even when we, know, days are hard because we have six kids, we just had our sixth. Eight is amazing, by the way, going from being an only child to having an that’s incredible. But starting with the conversation of just life, that they are good and blessings and I’m thankful for them. And then also the second part of that is talking about, you know, sex is not sinful, inherently.
Abby Johnson (21:07.292)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (21:24.323)
There’s so many good things in this life that God’s given us that can be used in sinful ways. But sex is a good thing. It’s a gift. And so talking about in the right context with our children and making it open and understanding sin also, sin and grace and it’s so much more than just, let’s just, you know, they’re good. We read the Bible, so they’re going to have, you know, a clear context of all this. Just to touch back on what you talking about with that hardness of your heart.
Aaron Smith (21:53.871)
The Bible over and over over again warns against the deceitfulness of sin that it will harden our hearts to hear the truth that we will be deceived by sin. You you take those steps in making sinful actions and we continue to know it’s not the Holy Spirit and we continue to walk in that way and our hearts, they solidify into these rocks that have a hard time receiving truth or believing truth. And so we need to be as parents battling that in our homes and not expecting the pastors of our churches to do it.
Aaron Smith (22:21.623)
not expecting the teachers in our schools to do it, not expecting anyone else in the world, not legislators, not presidents, to align our children’s hearts with the truth about who humans are, you know?
Abby Johnson (22:32.018)
We
Abby Johnson (22:33.909)
expect too many other people to parent our children. I do not expect anyone else to parent my children. I do not expect teachers of my kids to parent my children. We don’t homeschool our kids. Our kids go to a private parochial school. And I love their school, but I don’t expect their teachers, who are good holy people, to parent my children. I am to parent my children. The government sure as heck is not going to parent my children.
Aaron Smith (22:36.879)
too many.
Aaron Smith (22:56.367)
Exactly.
Abby Johnson (23:01.58)
I do not expect my pastor to parent my children. I don’t expect the youth group, the youth leaders to parent my children. I am solely responsible. God has put them on loan to me, for me to parent, and my job is to give them back to Him. And that is my, really, my sole responsibility. God put me in a position as my vocation, my primary vocation is to be a wife
Aaron Smith (23:13.071)
Yeah, you’re a steward.
Abby Johnson (23:30.834)
first and to be a mother second. And that, I mean, that’s it. I’m not, my vocation is not to be a pro-life advocate. My vocation is not to be a public speaker. My vocation is not to be a podcast host. My vocation is not to do any of those things. I do that because I’m compelled to do that by Christ because he’s called me to do that. But that is not my vocation.
Aaron Smith (23:33.401)
Amen.
Abby Johnson (23:56.442)
And we have that so wrong. I think so many people have that so wrong. And I had it so wrong for many years of my life. And I think even after I left Planned Parenthood, I had it wrong for so long. And I was ignoring the the gift of vocation that God had given me. And I think a lot of us get into that because we’re like, we’re doing a good thing, right? Like we’re doing like kingdom work.
Aaron Smith (24:19.694)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (24:23.448)
Like that’s what we say, like we’re doing kingdom work, so it’s okay. But it’s never okay to allow other people to step in and parent your children. It’s never okay to ignore your children to do like quote unquote God’s work, right? Because God’s work is overseeing the children and the gifts that he’s given you right in your own home. That actually is God’s work for you, right?
Aaron Smith (24:24.174)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (24:31.566)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (24:38.21)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (24:45.507)
Am I?
Aaron Smith (24:48.427)
My phrase for that
Aaron Smith (24:49.268)
is don’t sacrifice family on the altar of ministry. Our wife, our husband, our spouses, and our children are absolute, 100 % first and most important ministry. Everything else is ancillary to that. yeah. Even if it’s good.
Abby Johnson (24:53.318)
Yeah, exactly.
Abby Johnson (25:04.188)
Yes, 100 percent, even if it’s good, right? Like, it’s not
Abby Johnson (25:07.911)
like I was out in the club, like getting drunk or something, neglecting my kids, right? I was like doing good things. I’m like trying to help save babies, right? But I was still sacrificing my own kids to help save the lives of other kids. And that’s not what God wants me to do. And so I think we can get caught up in that with church culture, with ministry, with all kinds of other things. And…
Aaron Smith (25:12.036)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (25:16.813)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (25:22.575)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (25:29.977)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (25:33.18)
And so, yeah, so I think we all have to prioritize that in our lives because I think good people get caught up in that. And I know I did. I mean, I know I did for many years. I had to reprioritize my whole life to make sure that I was fulfilling the vocation that God gave me. So yeah, and I always encourage parents, like my kids are very open with me. I’m very open with my kids about the mistakes I’ve made.
Aaron Smith (25:41.665)
Absolutely.
Abby Johnson (26:02.566)
the challenges I’ve had, the challenges I still have. And I think that’s important. I think that’s been a very important part of my parenting. My kids is, mean, part of it is I do live a very open life. I mean, there’s a whole movie about mistakes I’ve made. So I don’t have a choice but to be open. But I think for me, like, I just…
Aaron Smith (26:06.105)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (26:20.303)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (26:30.916)
I know that Satan is coming for our children. I see it every day. I see how he’s coming for them, even just through the games they play, the phones they use, what’s out there, know, that Satan is coming for them. Like he’s not really coming for me anymore, right? I mean, not to say that I don’t experience like spiritual attacks and stuff, sure. But like, I’m already set in my beliefs, right? Like he’s kind of done coming and coming and coming for me, right?
Aaron Smith (26:41.9)
It’s everything.
Aaron Smith (26:53.294)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (26:59.954)
but he’s not done coming for my kids. There is a target on all of our children’s backs and Satan is constantly coming on attack for them. And so, like I want my kids to know how I have fought against Satan. I want them to see me fighting for them. I want them to see me praying for them. I want them to see me taking the daggers and the punches for them. I want them to see me warring for them.
Abby Johnson (27:29.256)
against the enemy. Because I want them to be ready for it. Because it’s going to happen to them too. And that’s generational, right? If they see us fighting against the enemy, they will learn how to fight against the enemy too. And we’re not living in a culture where we can pretend like, know, our kids don’t know about abortion until they’re 15 or 16 years old. our kids are so innocent and pure and we don’t want to…
Abby Johnson (27:57.932)
We don’t want to take their innocence away. We don’t live in that culture anymore. It doesn’t matter if you homeschool, it doesn’t matter if you try to shelter your kids, doesn’t matter if you try to keep them innocent for so long. That’s just not the culture that we live in anymore. And it’s better for your kids to hear from you about these issues. It’s better for your kids to be open and honest with you about it. That’s what will keep them in dialogue with you.
Aaron Smith (28:12.451)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (28:25.542)
That’s what will keep your relationship open and we need more more parents to just be honest and open and talk about your failures and the things that you struggle with, the things you’re continuing to struggle with. That’s what keeps open dialogue with your kids.
Aaron Smith (28:40.195)
Yeah, the most powerful tool we have against sin is the light. You know, we drag things from the darkness into the light, it becomes light. If we try and hide things so that we, because we don’t want to expose our kids to something, if we try and hide our failures, all we do is end up looking like hypocrites because we behave one way and we say another rather than like coming to them and just being honest like, these are choices I’ve made in the past and these were wrong choices. And these were choices that had consequences.
Abby Johnson (28:44.626)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (29:09.043)
And using those as an example to our kids to teach them how to have open and transparent and repentant hearts, to recognize that when they fail, that doesn’t define them, but that when they repent and turn back to God, that’s what defines them. so that’s a good example. And also a good message for all of us and all those listening is our role to our children is the most important role we have, and there’s no one that can replace it.
Aaron Smith (29:36.799)
But there’s plenty of people that want to replace it. They will they will speak to our kids. They will teach our kids, but they won’t teach them what we want How do you how would you encourage? So you’ve had two abortions And I can hear it in your voice like I know you’re where your heart is out on that and I know that you love the Lord and I know that you look back not with shame necessarily, but probably with just a Thankfulness for the forgiveness and the grace that
Abby Johnson (30:03.507)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (30:03.577)
God has for you but
Aaron Smith (30:05.923)
There’s many people that they’ve made mistakes. They’ve made choices out of either ignorance or willfulness. They’ve sinned against God. They’ve done something and it may not have been abortion, but often when we do those things, we immediately feel disqualified, which in many senses in like official church roles, it might disqualify us from that, but it doesn’t disqualify us from our relationship with God.
Aaron Smith (30:32.205)
It doesn’t disqualify us from being able to, like you said, talk to our children about those things. Because there’s been times in my life that sins in my life that I had in the past makes me feel like I can’t talk to someone or encourage someone or remind someone of the truth. How would you encourage a woman or a husband that’s got that in the back of their mind? The enemy’s using their past sin to make them feel unworthy to be able to speak truth to their kids or to a friend or their spouse? Because it’s not true. That’s what I’m getting at.
Abby Johnson (30:59.174)
Yeah. No,
Abby Johnson (31:01.836)
it’s not. It’s definitely not true. I think, I mean, the enemy does use that though, for sure. And people, the enemy will use other people to speak that into your life as well. Right? So I hear that all the time. Like, so you wanted the option.
Aaron Smith (31:07.331)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (31:22.588)
to, you you wanted to be able to use your right to choose twice, but now you’re taking it away from other women. Like I hear that all the time on social media, right? And I’m like, okay, I’m like, just get behind me, Satan, right? Like I’m like, no, I am out here telling women why that is a devastating choice. I’m out here trying to, you would never, and they don’t do that with anything else, right? They do that only with abortion.
Aaron Smith (31:30.313)
Yeah, straight from the math-o-devil.
Aaron Smith (31:37.61)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (31:48.505)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (31:50.408)
Like nobody is out here telling the leaders of Alcoholics Anonymous, okay, so you wanted to be able to drink, but now you’re telling other people the devastating effects of alcoholism. Like nobody’s out here doing that, right? Like nobody’s out here telling people, you know, in the NA, so you wanted to use drugs, but now nobody does that with anything else except abortion.
Aaron Smith (31:59.875)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (32:03.843)
That’s a really good point. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (32:18.196)
And that is just the devil that just shows you like how satanic and how satanic abortion is and how just like rooted in sin abortion is. mean it is like it abortion is a demonic sacrifice. Whether or not the women know when they’re walking in, I’m participating in a demonic sacrifice. It doesn’t matter.
Aaron Smith (32:32.312)
yeah, absolutely.
Aaron Smith (32:42.829)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (32:44.54)
The devil doesn’t need them to actually know that they’re participating in it for it to be a demonic sacrifice, right? The devil rejoices every time innocent blood is spilled. And that’s what abortion is. And he is rejoicing every time an innocent child is killed in the name of choice. And so it’s a devastating thing that we’ve done to these children. It’s a devastating thing that we’ve done to our world.
Aaron Smith (33:04.473)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (33:14.374)
And it’s a devastating thing that we’ve done to families. And we see the effects of abortion on our nation. We see the effects of abortion in our culture. We see the hardness of heart that is taken over women and men and families. And so I think that, you know, that is to feel ashamed of something that you’ve repented of. And this was me for a long time. Like, I felt like…
Abby Johnson (33:42.172)
you know, how could God ever forgive me of that? And then I finally realized like, how prideful is that? Like, I am so small, my sin is so small compared to the greatness of God. And like, how ridiculous is that? For me to think that my sin, something that came from evil, right? Something that came from Satan, obviously God is so much greater than Satan, but I’m saying to God,
Aaron Smith (33:45.206)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (33:50.243)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (34:11.128)
something that came from evil is actually bigger than your forgiveness, right? And that’s ridiculous. God is bigger than any sin I could ever commit. He’s bigger than a million sins that I could ever commit, right? Because he conquers evil every time. And so I was not allowing God, I was in my pride, which is a sin in itself, I was not allowing God to do his good work in me. And so,
Aaron Smith (34:15.981)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (34:27.747)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (34:38.627)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (34:39.836)
that I had to lay that down. That was a sin in itself. So I had to lay that down and just allow him to just do this work in me. And I had to put all that down. And now, I’m not a woman. There’s women that stand in abortion clinics that say, I regret my abortion. I’m not a woman that really can stand out there and say, I regret my abortion. Do I wish I would have made a different decision back then? Yes.
Abby Johnson (35:09.17)
Would it have changed the trajectory of my life if I would have not had that first abortion? Yes, absolutely. Do I wish I would have not murdered two of my children? Yes. But I don’t walk around in regret because God does not want us to walk around living a life of regret. He wants us to live a life of freedom. And that’s why He took on our sins, right? That’s why He our sin on at His crucifixion.
Aaron Smith (35:34.585)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (35:39.172)
so that we wouldn’t have to walk around carrying the burden of sin and carrying that guilt and carrying that shame. so truly, at some point in time when I was able to give up that pride and I was able to really just give everything over to Him and say, okay, God, use it, like do something with it, use me, use my past sin, use this shame, use this guilt, just do whatever you want to with it.
Abby Johnson (36:08.892)
There was truly this like unburdening. was just like, I just felt very, I felt like I was just coming out of bondage. I felt like I was just, like this just was being lifted off of me. And I didn’t have to live in that anymore. And I didn’t have to feel ashamed. I just felt very thankful that I served a God that was so great and was so merciful.
Aaron Smith (36:18.551)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (36:37.474)
and was giving me this chance that I was so undeserving of, right? But he was willing to give me another chance to live for him and to walk back into his will.
Aaron Smith (36:51.215)
And that is the truth, if any of you listening are struggling with feeling unworthy. In reality, none of us are worthy. The forgiveness that was purchased on the cross by Christ and his blood was for every man, regardless of what sins we committed. We are sinful people. And so it really comes down to do we believe we’re forgiven? Do we believe that what he did on the cross was enough, even for abortion, even for
Aaron Smith (37:20.173)
drug addiction, for porn addiction, even for whatever sin you have in your past or in your present, his forgiveness is enough. His blood is enough. So I really appreciate that perspective.
Abby Johnson (37:32.796)
Well, it really just
Abby Johnson (37:33.596)
comes down to like, do you believe what he says? Do you take him at his word? Like, do you believe the word of God? He says it. So do you believe him or not? And I was like, I…
Aaron Smith (37:35.903)
Exactly, yeah. He said he forgives you. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (37:47.816)
I walked outside of God’s will for so long and didn’t take God at His word for so long. I was like, I don’t ever want to do that again. And so I just had to come to an understanding where I was like, okay, God, like, I believe you. And if I believe you, then I have to relent. And I have to just totally give this over to you.
Aaron Smith (38:02.105)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (38:10.591)
Amen. I want to get into, I love that we got into a lot of your background. It’s just what God’s doing in your life and has done in your life is just so awesome. And your story is also not unique. You’ve helped other people. That’s one of your ministries is get out of the Planned Parenthood cult and get into other jobs. I would imagine many of those people probably would have come into the Lord also. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (38:30.194)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (38:35.208)
Yes, yeah, that’s
Abby Johnson (38:36.288)
what we consider success. you know, just leaving your job at Planned Parenthood and going to get a job at like Walgreens that like we don’t consider that success. success for us is leaving your job in the abortion industry and coming into a saving relationship with Christ. So we have helped over 700 people do that.
Aaron Smith (38:43.256)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (38:52.737)
Amen.
Abby Johnson (38:59.432)
So we’ve helped over 700 people, nurses, doctors, medical assistants, directors, executives of the abortion industry leave their jobs in the abortion industry and come into a saving relationship with Christ. And it’s been just miraculous really.
Aaron Smith (39:17.431)
I love that. Will you just share the website and the name of that ministry right now so that anyone listening that’s like right now is like, I want to be a part of that. I want to support that. I want to know what that is.
Abby Johnson (39:21.937)
Yeah
Abby Johnson (39:26.34)
Yeah, so it’s called And Then There Were None and the website is abortionworker.com.
Aaron Smith (39:34.795)
worker.com. We’ll put that in the show notes as well. That’s a very worthy thing to support. But let’s talk about your newest book. So you wrote a book a while ago called Unplanned. It’s what the movie was based on back in 2018. What’s this newest book and what’s different about it than books you’ve written in the past?
Abby Johnson (39:43.176)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (39:46.311)
did, yeah.
Abby Johnson (39:52.738)
Yeah, so I’ve written several books, adult books, and that’s been, you know, fun. A lot of those have been kind of like healing for me, I guess, you know, just kind of getting my testimony out and things like that. But I was on a plane. Well, I was boarding a plane actually one day about a year ago, and I saw that there was a book coming out on explaining
Abby Johnson (40:22.682)
the beauty of abortion to kids. And I was so angered by that. Yeah, yeah, that we were selling that to children. And I was like, you know what? We have to fight against that. Like we’ve got to start telling, talking about the beauty of life in the womb.
Aaron Smith (40:25.389)
Yuck.
Aaron Smith (40:32.021)
It’s making me angry thinking that isn’t even a book.
Abby Johnson (40:47.336)
and just the value of life, right? I think so many people choose abortion because they don’t even see themselves as valuable. And so why would they see life in the womb as valuable if they don’t even see themselves as valuable, right? And so I was like, we’ve got to start talking about the value of life in the womb. Like, we’ve got to start really just creating like a battleground there, like just teaching our kids. I am a prolific children’s book reader.
Aaron Smith (40:58.115)
Yeah. Yep.
Aaron Smith (41:17.551)
You have eight children. You’ve been doing it for a while.
Abby Johnson (41:17.672)
as a mom of eight and we have quite
Abby Johnson (41:21.634)
a library of children’s books. And so I thought, you know what, I am going to write a book that is geared toward, you know, a fun book that is geared toward life in the womb. And I didn’t want to write something that was like cheesy. There’s a lot of like cheesy Christian books out there, but I wanted to write something that was good and fun and something that my kids would like to read.
Abby Johnson (41:43.848)
Little little ones would like to read and so just on that plane. I just pumped out a book a kids book Right there on the plane and like an hour and a half flight Yeah, I just sat down in my computer and just started typing and in my fury I just started typing and by the time I landed I had a book Completed children’s book completed. So it’s called what’s in mommy’s tummy and It’s a fun
Aaron Smith (41:51.087)
You did it right there on the plane. How long was the flight? Hour and a half?
Abby Johnson (42:13.256)
a little book really geared for younger kids, just talking about the beauty of life in a funny way. And it’s about a little boy named Luke trying to figure out what’s growing inside of his mom’s tummy. And I have a son named Luke, so I’m contracted for several more books to focus on the family. So I guess I have to go through all of my kids. I guess I have to do at least eight so I can, yeah.
Aaron Smith (42:40.675)
Dude, you gotta memorialize them in books.
Abby Johnson (42:44.359)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (42:44.36)
My wife and I did, not just, we worked on two children’s books for a few years and our kids are the, or the pictures in the book is our children, so I get it. You gotta do it.
Abby Johnson (42:54.064)
Yeah, that’s what I’m going to have to do. So now I’ve got to have at
Abby Johnson (42:56.422)
least eight, one for each kid. So yeah.
Aaron Smith (42:59.264)
Can you give so it was the book inspired by your Luke?
Abby Johnson (43:04.37)
So yeah, I wanted to write, my son Luke was, he’s a very inquisitive little boy. I was pregnant with my twins when my son Luke was young. And he was very interested in the fact that I had two babies growing in my tummy at the same time and was, yeah, very interested in that.
Aaron Smith (43:30.115)
That is very interesting.
Abby Johnson (43:33.288)
So some of the, was just kind of funny, kind of like reliving some of that with him as I was writing the book. And so yeah, so I just kind of, you know, wrote that and thought this will be fun for parents to read with their kids. And I think, you know, addressing kids like through funny stories, one of my kids’ very, very favorite books is like a kind of a silly book, but it’s called
Abby Johnson (44:02.272)
I love you stinky face. And, okay. Yeah. So my kids, we read it until like it came apart and we had to buy another one and it’s just a silly book. I was like, kids like funny, silly books, right? And, they like, you know, they like things they can laugh at. And so
Aaron Smith (44:04.495)
Never heard of that book. I’m get that one. Let’s see. I’m looking it up as you talk.
Abby Johnson (44:28.656)
I wanted to create something that would just make them laugh and they would think was kind of silly. And so part of the book is, is of course talking about life and life in the womb and what’s going on inside of mom’s belly. But some of it is just kind of funny and silly and kids will laugh at and they’ll want to read it over and over again. So that was, that was kind of the point of doing it.
Aaron Smith (44:38.199)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (44:50.063)
Yeah, something that I was loving about it is he’s seems like he’s asking questions about what is in there. Is it is it a dragon? Is it? Yeah, kids do love funny stories. Our kids are the exact same. They what’s funny, though, is Mike with my kids. I’ll try and read a children’s book to them and I’ll try and do funny voices or I’ll try and sing the book like like I’ll rap it or I’ll sing it to a beat. And they always look at me and they say, stop, dad. I’m like, what? Like what?
Abby Johnson (44:57.456)
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (45:19.151)
Try to have fun with this here. You got too far. But they do love children’s books. And so when does this book come out? comes out in January, I believe, right?
Abby Johnson (45:19.176)
They’re like, you’ve gone too far. It’s too far. It’s too much. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (45:28.84)
Yeah,
Abby Johnson (45:29.861)
January. Yeah, the beginning of January. So Sanctity of Human Life Month. So we’ll be putting it out then and very excited. my first children’s book and hopefully first of many. I did throw in a little bit at the end just about how women are the only people that could have babies and
Aaron Smith (45:34.894)
Yep.
Aaron Smith (45:56.173)
You don’t have to be
Aaron Smith (45:56.655)
careful on my show. You could say it.
Abby Johnson (45:57.768)
Yeah,
Abby Johnson (46:00.392)
that dads have a specific role and moms have a specific role and dads are there to protect moms and babies. And so I did throw a little bit of that in there toward the end.
Aaron Smith (46:15.375)
You have to say it because there’s going to be someone that’s going to put out what’s in daddy’s tummy. So that this is the world we live in. We got to be speaking the truth in love. But there’s a lot of parents out there. There’s like I was saying, you don’t have to be careful on my show. These are all all Christians and we’re all adults. But there’s a lot of people that don’t know how to have these conversations. The world has made it so scary.
Abby Johnson (46:21.082)
I know, right? I know.
Abby Johnson (46:28.402)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (46:43.769)
Like, if we talk, if we share, if we say this, we’re going to be, you know, canceled. We’re going to be attacked. We’re going to be… But you know what? We just got to get over that. We got to remember that what the Bible says is what is truth.
Abby Johnson (46:55.322)
Yeah, I mean,
Abby Johnson (46:56.102)
here’s the thing, and this is what I tell people all the time, like, the other side, they are never worried about offending you. Never. I was never worried about offending anyone when I worked at Planned Parenthood. In fact, I reveled in a conservative’s offense. I loved it if I was able to offend a Christian or offend a conservative.
Aaron Smith (47:02.702)
Never.
Aaron Smith (47:09.295)
Hmm.
Aaron Smith (47:13.793)
Yeah, getting someone all riled up.
Aaron Smith (47:20.238)
Mm.
Abby Johnson (47:20.672)
or offend some like Bible thumper, right? Like they revel in our offense. So, but yeah, we are so worried about offending them, but we’re offending them with truth.
Aaron Smith (47:25.348)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (47:32.033)
Yeah,
Aaron Smith (47:33.183)
I was going to say there’s a big difference in offending someone for the sake of offense and speaking truth and someone being offended by it. It’s a big difference.
Abby Johnson (47:40.201)
And people
Abby Johnson (47:41.062)
who are averse to truth will always be offended by it. But that doesn’t mean you stop speaking it.
Aaron Smith (47:49.135)
Now the Bible says it this way, that the gospel is a stench of death to those who do not believe it. But it’s a stench of life. It’s a fragrance of life to those who believe it. So the truth, yeah, to those who want nothing to do with the truth, it’s going to smell like death to them always. But we should, as believers, we need to become more bold. Not in the sense of, I want to offend someone.
Abby Johnson (47:54.759)
Yes.
Abby Johnson (47:57.692)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (48:17.645)
in the sense of I love people enough to say the truth. I love my children enough to tell them the truth in love that, hey, there’s God made male and female, boy and girl. You’re a boy and that’s good. You’re a girl and that’s good and beautiful. that’s our job. We can’t not have that as our job. What do you hope comes?
Abby Johnson (48:38.312)
And this is our job.
Aaron Smith (48:45.035)
out of this children’s book. What do you hope to see in families who get this book, which by the way the Arden is very very beautiful. So that’s awesome. But what do you hope to see?
Abby Johnson (48:58.778)
I hope that parents get it. I hope they read it to their kids. I hope that they are able to laugh with their kids, speak some truth to their kids. And I hope it just opens up an opportunity because it is meant for younger, a younger audience. And so I hope it just opens up a conversation about life and the value of life and the sanctity of human life and that that continues to just draw out more more conversations.
Aaron Smith (49:21.069)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (49:26.79)
You know, I’ve never had to sit down with my kids and tell them abortion is wrong. I’ve never had to sit down with my kids and be like, okay, now we’re pro-life, right? Like, don’t forget, we’re pro-life and we’re against abortion. I’ve never had to do that. Yeah, I’ve never had to do that. I’ve never had to be like, now guys, don’t forget, like, abortion is wrong. They just know it. They know it instinctively because we have…
Aaron Smith (49:38.083)
Yeah, here’s our political stance.
Abby Johnson (49:50.938)
taught them that life begins at conception. They have seen ultrasounds. They’ve seen ultrasounds of their siblings. They look at a pregnant woman and they know immediately that what is inside of her belly is beautiful and sacred and should be protected. And so anytime that abortion is even talked about, they know abortion is killing a baby. And so anytime abortion is even talked about, my kids are like horrified, right? They’re like, my gosh, like.
Aaron Smith (49:57.357)
Yep.
Abby Johnson (50:19.772)
Who could do that? Right? I mean, they’re just like, because it’s so black and white to them. Right? And that’s how it should be for us. Abortion is murder. It’s murdering a baby. It should be very black and white. And at one point in time, it was black and white to all of us. At one point in time, all of us, if we would have heard…
Aaron Smith (50:21.252)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (50:25.261)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (50:37.337)
for very short period.
Abby Johnson (50:43.186)
There is a procedure out there called abortion and abortion kills a baby, an innocent child. What do you think about it? At some point in time, every single child in America would have said, that’s wrong. It’s not until sin really enters in and we’re given justifications for sin that we start to see like gray area in sin. But that’s not really how sin is supposed to be. Sin is supposed to be very black and white, right? It’s right and wrong. That’s it.
Aaron Smith (50:53.934)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (51:00.376)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (51:11.88)
And abortion is wrong. It is, it’s an absolute truth that abortion is wrong. That’s it. It’s black and white. And that’s what we need to teach our kids. That’s how our kids need to see life and death. That’s how they need to see murder. Murder is wrong all the time, every time. Abortion is murder. Therefore, abortion is wrong. And that’s how they need to see it. But we’ve got to start having these conversations earlier and earlier, but not even about abortion, but just about life.
Aaron Smith (51:16.793)
Black and white.
Aaron Smith (51:33.508)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (51:40.912)
in general and that life in the womb is beautiful and it’s ordained by God and that God knew us before he even created us, that he had a purpose and a plan for us. Yes.
Aaron Smith (51:49.773)
Yeah, knows the hairs on our heads. know,
Aaron Smith (51:52.914)
he knows he has his thought for us. His thoughts for us are countless. It’s I think a big reason why Christians have had such a hard time in this realm is we like, as we stated earlier, we’ve handed off too much spiritual authority, too much parenting to third parties saying, hey, I don’t feel equipped.
Aaron Smith (52:18.607)
Therefore, I’m going let other people, I’m going to trust other people to handle the parenting of my children. They may not have ever said that verbally, but by actions and by the conclusions of their life, that’s what it is. But think a big part of it is going back to something else we talked about is there’s a big gap between understanding what God has said and believing what he has said. And so…
Aaron Smith (52:46.571)
you like we’re talking about with abortion, like this black and white. Well, the reason it feels so gray is because I don’t actually know. I don’t know. I don’t know where I can draw the line. Like, what about this and what about this? Rather than going to the Word of God and starting from there and trusting and saying, well, God loves life. He’s not a God of death. He loves children. We see that in Jesus specifically saying, let the children come unto me. Do not hinder the little ones.
Aaron Smith (53:15.955)
And so he’s got a very strong stance on life, on children, and on babies. There was laws in the Old Testament to protect babies in the womb. It’s incredible to see. So I think there needs to be more confidence in believers of knowing that what the Word of God says is the truest truth. And we can stand on it and we need to believe it. That way we don’t feel like we’re walking in these gray areas and not really not sure what we can stand on and what’s true.
Aaron Smith (53:44.943)
You were going say something.
Abby Johnson (53:45.212)
I
Abby Johnson (53:45.993)
know it’s like time to wrap up, just one controversial thing. I’m just going to go and throw it out there. I think one huge problem also in the church and one of the reasons that this has become such a gray area in the Christian church is because there has been such a feminization of the church. we have just a whole, I mean, look, I mean, you just look at the country, you see,
Aaron Smith (53:52.281)
Do it.
Aaron Smith (54:05.121)
Amen. Not in a good way, but yes, I agree.
Abby Johnson (54:15.004)
The higher voter turnout of women, the more liberal our votes are. So naturally, the more females we have as pastors, the more females we have teaching from the pulpit, the more feminized our churches, the more liberal our churches are going to be. And as a mom of five boys, I don’t want female pastors teaching my boys. I want men.
Aaron Smith (54:17.977)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Abby Johnson (54:43.784)
teaching my sons how to be men. I don’t want women standing up at a pulpit teaching my sons how to be men. And I think that that’s entirely scriptural. I think it’s entirely biblical. But I think that the feminization of the church, the Christian church, is a huge problem. And you do not see that in other faith traditions. You do not see that in the Muslim world.
Abby Johnson (55:12.328)
You do not see that in the Hindu world. You don’t see that. You don’t see women taking the lead of these other churches. But you do see that in the Christian church. And what is happening in the Christian church? We’re losing our people. Meanwhile, these other churches are growing. They’re booming. Their membership is increasing. What’s happening to the Christian church? We’re losing our members. Why? Because we don’t have proper leadership in the church.
Aaron Smith (55:18.265)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (55:30.115)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (55:41.956)
We don’t have people standing up the pulpit and properly leading their flock. And I think it’s a true shame because we need male headship. We need it in our homes and we need it in our churches. And I’m saying this as a woman who is a public speaker who does at times speak in churches, but I’m never going to ask to pastor a church.
Aaron Smith (56:11.288)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (56:12.168)
And I think that is a role for men and I think it’s a role for men only. But I think that, and this is a huge, you know, this is a huge debate even in the Southern Baptist Convention right now. This is a huge debate. I think it’s a, I don’t even think it’s a debate that should be had. I think it’s a debate that should be closed and I think it should be a completely, like, it should be shut down because I think there’s only one side that’s biblical. But I think that that’s one of the reasons that we’re losing people in the church because we do not have proper headship.
Abby Johnson (56:42.256)
And I’m not even sure that people understand what spiritual authority is anymore. I don’t really think that they understand what, I don’t think they really understand what spiritual authority is in a home. We have so many homes that are lopsided. have, you know, husbands and wives not agreeing in the home on how to raise children, on how to vote, on politics, their split, their, you know,
Aaron Smith (56:47.821)
No, I don’t think they do.
Aaron Smith (57:06.873)
diet
Aaron Smith (57:07.835)
and everything.
Abby Johnson (57:08.144)
women taking
Abby Johnson (57:08.994)
their children to church and the fathers are not going. I mean, just all different. mean, one of the reasons our culture is so screwed up is because fathers are failing to take spiritual headship of the home. And so I think that’s another big issue. But I think that our churches are failing because we are allowing too many women to take over that pastoral role.
Aaron Smith (57:12.291)
Yep.
Abby Johnson (57:36.802)
and we need men to really step up and lead in all areas of our lives.
Aaron Smith (57:42.637)
And I would add, I think that not just men leading, but we men, godly, integritous men leading our churches, who are unashamed of the gospel, who have integrity and honor and know how to be men. That’s a big thing we’ve been missing. I mean, it’s just a continuation of the curse from the garden, you know, that Eve
Abby Johnson (57:47.75)
Yes, yes.
Abby Johnson (57:51.386)
Yes. Yes.
Abby Johnson (57:59.538)
Yes. Know how to be men, right?
Aaron Smith (58:12.651)
would want to usurp, that’s a word, her husband that would want to desire his position and men are going to want to desire to give it up. And this is something that when we don’t walk in the Spirit of God, because Christ, when He died on the cross and was resurrected, when we believe in Him, He breaks the curse. So it’s not that we get to say like, we’re still under the curse. No, it says that He came and He broke the curse. He was the one that was accursed for us. And so the problem is, is when we don’t walk in the Spirit of God,
Abby Johnson (58:22.578)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (58:42.329)
then the natural position of our flesh is going to be that the woman’s going to want to step up and replace that leadership. The husband’s going to want to sit back and say, okay, you can have it. That’s fine. And that’s the opposite of what the Holy Spirit’s desiring. He wants men to be men. He wants men to stand up and raise holy hands in prayer, in supplications, in protection, in teaching, in exhortation, in rebuke, all these things in a powerful way. And you see this
Abby Johnson (58:59.122)
Yes.
Aaron Smith (59:10.479)
throughout the Old Testament when a king was righteous, it was good. The Asherah poles were taken down. The temples of the other gods were destroyed. There was wealth in the land. was peace in the land. There was no more war in the land. And then you have another king come up and he’s just faithless and he’s a adulterer and he’s not following the ways of the Lord. Yeah, so I agree. I think we need more godly men. Not just men.
Aaron Smith (59:39.245)
not boys for sure. We need more godly men to step up and for all my listeners, they might be thinking about their own pastor or someone else in their life and I’m gonna say it’s us. It starts on our hopes. Like my children, I hope that whatever church they go to in the future, they’re gonna look and say, how does this line up with what I’ve seen in my dad and in their marriage and in their life? I want them to experience that and know that so.
Abby Johnson (59:40.53)
Yeah, no.
Abby Johnson (01:00:03.976)
Well, and people may be offended by what I said, but I’m telling you right now, like I’ve lived this. I emasculated my husband for years by taking over the leadership role in our home. Because secular feminism tells women that they are to lead the home, that they are to wear the pants, that their husbands are to shut up. And that’s exactly what I did. And I usurped his authority.
Abby Johnson (01:00:33.2)
in our home and told him to sit back and I was going to handle everything and he did. And because that’s sinful nature, right? And so he did. our house, I mean, we, I’m telling you like, it’s truly a miracle of God that we’re still married today. But it was, you when I left Planned Parenthood, I had to learn how to be a wife.
Aaron Smith (01:00:41.859)
Yeah, it’s easier.
Abby Johnson (01:01:00.632)
I had to learn how to allow my husband to lead our family and to lead our home and he had to learn how to take over that spiritual authority of our home. But our home has become such a place of peace because we are living under God’s authority. And so I’m saying this as a woman who has not done the right thing for many years.
Abby Johnson (01:01:29.178)
and who has seen her entire family turn around when you actually do put your home under the correct authority and give your husband the authority that he should have, that God has ordained him to have. I’ve lived it. I’ve lived it both ways and I know what it looks like to do it the right way.
Aaron Smith (01:01:48.611)
When you began to walk that out in your own life, did you begin to see your husband rise up?
Abby Johnson (01:01:55.868)
yeah, yeah. mean, was like, suddenly I was like, dang, like I’m the worst. Like I’ve been keeping this from him for so many years, you know? And he’s just been waiting on this. But it was a struggle actually. When I left Planned Parenthood, that was actually probably the hardest time in our marriage because we were having to learn like how to be biblically married, like how to…
Aaron Smith (01:02:19.421)
yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:02:25.192)
be under God’s authority. That was probably the hardest time.
Aaron Smith (01:02:28.631)
You got… Did
Aaron Smith (01:02:30.195)
you get saved right around the same season? Or were you saved prior to this? Gotcha.
Abby Johnson (01:02:34.856)
So we like came back to the church like we basically came
Abby Johnson (01:02:38.727)
back, know to our faith well I did like I came back into my faith and like came back into the church and everything and so I was like having this like kind of reawakening and trying to like heal from all this stuff and and I’m like, you know, it was just like a huge time of like healing and then we’re trying to heal in our marriage and all the terrible things I had done and said to Doug and
Aaron Smith (01:02:50.989)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:03:02.329)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:03:02.48)
You
Abby Johnson (01:03:02.64)
know, and so it was just like this big time of healing. I’d not been a good mother to, you know, to Grace, to my oldest daughter, like, and so it was just like this huge time of like breaking everything down and just like brokenness and then rebuilding it, you know, under God and what he wanted for us. But that was the hardest time actually. The hardest time of our marriage was not when I worked at Planned Pair and even though people think like that was probably hard. It was hard. That was a hard time.
Abby Johnson (01:03:31.752)
because we were not equally yoked, we were in two completely different camps. But that was where Satan wanted me. So I didn’t feel like I was on, I didn’t have a lot of conflict, right? Because I was just following Satan. So I didn’t feel like I had a lot of conflict or internal struggle. It wasn’t until I stepped away from the enemy and was trying to line up under the Lord that then it was like, like everything started flying at me.
Aaron Smith (01:03:36.983)
No, but you were right where Satan wanted you. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:03:43.342)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:03:57.028)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:04:00.811)
Abby, would you and would you think Doug would ever want to come on with you? A future episode? think I think it’d be awesome to have a conversation just about that season and what that looked like because.
Abby Johnson (01:04:04.656)
Yeah, he would. Yeah, totally.
Abby Johnson (01:04:09.372)
Yeah, he
Abby Johnson (01:04:10.242)
would talk to you, Doug, and you know, we had, he would be interesting for you to interview because it was like, even when I was talking about like how I wasn’t prioritizing them correctly, you know, and everything, like my inattention to them actually kind of led him into a pattern of drinking and alcoholism. And so like, I kind of had to take responsibility for that. Like that I…
Aaron Smith (01:04:24.11)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron Smith (01:04:34.18)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:04:37.798)
was, you I left him home with all the kids all the time while I was out like trying to save all the babies, you know, and I was not taking care of my home. I was not taking care of my children and my marriage and all of this. And so, you know, then suddenly the kids go to bed and he’s like drinking, you know, a bottle of whiskey to try to cope, you know, with me being gone and all the kids and right. It started out like innocent and all of sudden he’s drinking a whole bottle every night. And so
Aaron Smith (01:04:43.876)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:04:59.117)
Yeah, probably starting out to relax, but turned into more.
Abby Johnson (01:05:07.58)
you know, then there’s like a pattern of addiction. And so, you know, we had to walk through that together, like him, and now he’s been sober for over three years, but it’s, yeah, but like even that, and so people were like, my gosh, that’s so hard. Like, you know, for him to be dealing with that. And I’m like, honestly, it was such an honor to be able to walk with him through that hard time because he has walked with me through all of these years, like.
Aaron Smith (01:05:16.479)
praise God. Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:05:32.078)
Mm-hmm.
Abby Johnson (01:05:33.818)
all of this struggle, I mean, I’ve been like the worst version of myself with him and he’s stuck with me. And so to be able to just do something like a little hard with him was really such an honor to go through that with him and to be able to hold his hands up during that time because he’s been that person for me so many times.
Aaron Smith (01:05:50.243)
Yeah.
Aaron Smith (01:05:56.023)
I love that. I absolutely would love to have you and Doug on again in the future to talk about that. So, hey, Abby, I really appreciate you coming on. I think what God’s done in your life and is doing through you now is so amazing. And you’ve said a couple of things about yourself, like, you know, you were the worst. I love that you have a sober understanding, sober view of yourself over the past. But I just want you to know that that God is absolutely used and is using you and in mighty ways.
Abby Johnson (01:05:58.738)
Yeah.
Abby Johnson (01:06:23.688)
That’s the prayer. That’s
Aaron Smith (01:06:24.811)
Yeah, and it’s
Abby Johnson (01:06:25.056)
the prayer.
Aaron Smith (01:06:25.451)
just a good thing. Again, it doesn’t change the past, but it just shows the goodness of God that He works all things together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes, and that is you. So thank you. Real quick, would you just share where people can find you? Because I think people should absolutely follow you, should absolutely get your new children’s book, which is so beautiful and has a beautiful message as well. Yeah, where can they find you?
Abby Johnson (01:06:46.022)
Yeah, thanks. Thank you.
Abby Johnson (01:06:50.175)
Yeah, so my website is just abbyj.com. You can find all my books there, my podcast, the movie, both my ministries, like everything that I do is kind of housed there at abbyj.com and all my like social media and everything like that.
Aaron Smith (01:07:01.857)
Awesome.
Aaron Smith (01:07:10.851)
beautiful abbyj.com I’ll put all these in the show notes also. Abby thank you so much for being on the show I really appreciate it.
Abby Johnson (01:07:17.256)
Abby Johnson (01:07:18.895)
Thank for having me.
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